Mormon Dilemma 30

19 July

Mormons Should be Involved with Masonic Lodge

Evidences and Reconciliations, pg. 357-358; Many of the Saints were Masons, such as Joseph’s brother Hyrum, Heber C. Kimball, Elijah Fordham, Newel K. Whitney, James Adams, and John C. Bennett. These members called attention to the spirit of brotherhood and brotherly love which are the foundations of Masonic fraternity… The people of the Church needed friends. The work in Nauvoo would be hindered if opposition to the Church were allowed to grow. The Prophet and his brethren and sisters of the Church had suffered much without cause. They wanted peace. Perhaps Masonry would help. So, in the light of history, ran the thoughts of the people.” – John Widtsoe

Jeremiah 5:7; How shall I pardon thee for this? thy children have forsaken me, and sworn by them that are no gods: when I had fed them to the full, they then committed adultery, and assembled themselves by troops in the harlots’ houses.

Jesus said; “Come to Me” in Matthew 11:28.  The question becomes, have you done this?  Could you face Jesus with all honesty after taking oaths to a foreign god?

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14 Responses to “Mormon Dilemma 30”

  1. shematwater July 20, 2011 at 5:45 pm #

    Isn’t it fun that nothing in the Masonic Fraternity is an oath to a foreign God.

  2. Camden Coughran July 21, 2011 at 4:38 pm #

    Masonic ritual is concerned with the recovery of the “Lost Word,” presumed to be the name of God- supposedly lost through the murder of the architect,
    Hiram Abiff, during the building of Solomon’s Temple.This quest is attained during the ritual of the ROYALARCH DEGREE.

    It is here that the SECRET NAME of the DEITY OF MASONRY is revealed. That name is “JAHBULON.” “JAH” is the short form of the Hebrew name of God,”Yahweh,” or “Jehovah.” “BUL” is a rendering of thename, BAAL. “ON” is the term used in the Babylonianmysteries to call upon the deity, “OSIRIS”!

    The secret ritual book of the Craft prints the letters J.B.O. It states that: “We three do meet and agree-in peace, love and
    unity-the Sacred Word to keep-and never to divulge the same-until we three, or three such as we-do meet and agree.” Thus, no Royal Arch Mason can pronounce the whole sacred name by himself.

    Therefore, what you see represented as the god of Freemasonry is a three-headed monster so remote from the Christian Trinity and so blasphemous as to damn the eternal soul of anyone who would dare to pronounce its name in a ritual of worship.

    • shematwater July 21, 2011 at 6:25 pm #

      Question: Are you a Freemason? Have you ever been a Freemason? If not, why should I trust that you know what you are talking about?

      As to the name: Baal simply means possessor. It was in common use in the middle east that expressed the relationship between a Lord and his slave. It was not always used in connection with the false god by the same name, and later, because of this god, the word was replaced with bosheth (meaning shame) in the places that it was used, as the name had become evil in itself.
      As such, for the architect to use it in relation to God is not necessarily evil and blasphemous. I have actually read that it has been used in such a way before, so it would not be the first time.
      As to the third part, if the first two can be references to God, why not the third? Is it not possible that the Architect simply used three words that described God in this name; and that it was after this that they came to have the connotations they do now?

      I am not saying that the Freemason’s are right. All I am saying is that you have not proven that they are referencing any god but the one the temple was built for, or Jehovah.

  3. Camden Coughran July 21, 2011 at 10:27 pm #

    I am not nor have I ever been a Freemason, but have studied them at great length and correspond with ex-Masons. You can read my testimony on the “testimony page”. Just search “Camden”, it was posted July 20th.

    It is also true that Baal can mean king. But the whole point here is that Christianity and Freemasonry are not compatible. The oath sworn by the Mason goes against what Jesus told us in Matthew; “Again, you have heard that it was said to the people long ago, `Do not break your oath, but keep the oaths you have made to the Lord.’ But I tell you, Do not swear at all: either by heaven, for it is God’s throne; or by the earth, for it is his footstool; or by Jerusalem, for it is the city of the Great King. And do not swear by your head, for you cannot make even one hair white or black. Simply let your `Yes’ be `Yes,’ and your `No,’ `No’; anything beyond this comes from the evil one. ( Matt. 5:33 -37 ) Here is the “York Rite” or the “Knights Templar” Degree oath… “I do solemnly swear, in the presence of Almighty God, that I will revenge the assassination of our worthy Master, Hiram Abiff, not only on the murderers, but also on all who may betray the secrets of this degree; and furthermore, that I will keep and protect this Order with all my might, and the brethren, in general, with all my power, and furthermore, that I will obey the decrees of the Grand Council of Princes of Jerusalem;

    and, if I violate my obligation, I consent to be struck with the dreadful poniard of vengeance, now presented to me, and to have my head cut off, and stuck on the highest pole, or pinnacle, in the eastern part of the world, as a monument of my villainy! Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen!”

    Anything and everything we do, we have to ask ourselves, “Can I do this in the Name of Jesus Christ and will it glorify Him”?

  4. shematwater July 22, 2011 at 8:55 pm #

    Nothing strikes me as being incompatible with Christianity.

    You mention what what Christ said in Matthew, but you do not understand it. He is talking about those who would weasel their way out of doing something because they never actually swore an oath. He is calling this dishonest. The use of Oaths had become corrupt, and so he taught the people to do away with the custome.
    Let your word be your bond, and don’t require it to be placed on anything other than that.

    As such, the oath is not incapatable with the intent of Christ.

    Now, I know it is off topic, but you have raised a question. What do you think of the oaths sworn by those who take public office, or by members of the military or police force? What about the pledge of Allegience?
    Just curious.

  5. CamdenC July 22, 2011 at 10:15 pm #

    That does raise a very good question… I know that my wife was called as a witness once in a trial and instead of saying, “so help me God” at the end of being sworn in, she said, “I promise”. And of course taking an oath of office or military duty doesn’t include swearing that if you break the oath that your belly should be slit open or your head cut off. As for the pledge, thankfully they haven’t taken out “under God”, which acknowledges we are subject to Him. Same goes for the money, it is “In God we trust”, not the money.
    There is a Christian song that goes; “It’s gotta be, More like falling in love, than something to believe in. More like losing my heart, than giving my allegiance…” Falling in love with and having a relationship with God is the most important thing in life. You and I just disagree on the nature of God.

  6. shematwater July 23, 2011 at 5:05 pm #

    It seems to me that, if what you quote is the real oath, it is done in the name of God, just as all these other ones you don’t seem to mind. The real problem is that last part, which to you is contrary to the gospel of Christ. I don’t think it necessarily is, so that is where we differ.

    However, as the intent of original article was to show that the LDS church has a dilemna with Joseph Smith and other members becoming and forming an aliance with local lodge members, I have proven my point that no such a dilemna actually exists.

  7. CamdenC July 25, 2011 at 3:27 pm #

    Once again… Anything and everything we do, we have to ask ourselves, “Can I do this in the Name of Jesus Christ and will it glorify Him”?
    Swearing bloody oaths and the fascination with death, murder, and secret societies is not of Jesus and should be denounced by any God loving person. Do not be yoked together with unbelievers. For what do righteousness and wickedness have in common? Or what fellowship can light have with darkness?

    What harmony is there between Christ and Belial? What does a believer have in common with an unbeliever?

    What agreement is there between the temple of God and idols? For we are the temple of the living God. As God has said: “I will live with them and walk among them, and I will be their God, and they will be my people.”

    “Therefore come out from them and be separate, says the Lord. Touch no unclean thing, and I will receive you.” (2 Cor. 6:14-17)
    8 Problems with a Christian being a member of the Lodge;
    1. The prevalent use of offensive concepts, titles, and terms such as “Worshipful Master” for the leaders of the lodge; references to their buildings as “mosques,” “shrines,” or “temples”; and the use of such words as “Abaddon” and Jah-Bul-On,” the so-called secret name of God. To many, these terms are not only offensive but sacrilegious.

    2. The use of archaic, offensive rituals and so-called “bloody oaths” or “obligations,” among those being that promised by the Entered Apprentice: [not listed for lack of space] or that of the Fellow Craft degree: [not listed for lack of space] Or that of the Master Mason: [not listed for lack of space] Or that of other advanced degrees with required rituals considered by many to be pagan and incompatible with Christian faith and practice. Even though these oaths, obligations and rituals may or may not be taken seriously by the initiate, it is inappropriate for a Christian to “sincerely promise and swear,” with a hand on the Holy Bible, any such promises or oaths, or to participate in any such pagan rituals.

    3. The recommended readings in pursuance of advanced degrees, of religions and philosophies, which are undeniably pagan and/or occultic, such as much of the writings of Albert Pike, Albert Mackey, Manly Hall, Rex Hutchins, W.L. Wilmhurst and other such authors; along with their works, such as Morals and Dogma, A Bridge to Light, An Encyclopedia of Freemasonry and The Meaning of Masonry.

    4. The reference to the Bible placed on the altar of the lodge as the “furniture of the lodge,” comparing it to the square and compass rather than giving it the supreme place in the lodge.

    5. The prevalent use of the term “light” which some may understand as a reference to salvation rather than knowledge or truth.

    6. The implication that salvation may be attained by one’s good works, implicit in the statement found in some Masonic writings that “Masonry is continually reminded of that purity of life and conduct which is necessary to obtain admittance into the Celestial Lodge above where the Supreme Architect of the Universe presides.” (Louisiana Monitor, page 79)

    Even though many Masons understand that the “purity of life and conduct” can only be achieved through faith in Jesus Christ, others may be led to believe they can earn salvation by living a pure life with good conduct.

    7. The heresy of Universalism (the belief all people will eventually be saved), which permeates the writings of many Masonic authors, which is a doctrine inconsistent with New Testament teaching.

    8. The refusal of most lodges (although not all) to admit for membership African Americans.

    As reported by the Southern Baptist Home Missions Board,

  8. shematwater July 25, 2011 at 5:01 pm #

    So, because you have problems with it, and because some other people have problems with it, we all should have problems with it.

    As far as I am concerned you lack accurate perspective as to the meaning of the symbols of the Masons, and your hostile attitude towards them makes you a very poor source of information concerning them.
    Your eight reasons are poor and are generally backed only by your attitude towards them.
    Take for example number 6. You admit that they teach faith in Christ, and yet based on a potential for others to misunderstand their teachings you use this as a reason for Christians to shun the organization.

    I am sorry, but you have given no credible evidence for there to be any real problem with the Masonic order beyond your own prejudice towards it.

    So, again I say you have failed to prove any dilemma for the LDS church.

  9. CamdenC July 25, 2011 at 6:16 pm #

    Those 8 reasons were taken from the Southern Baptist Home Missions Board after they did a thorough investigation of the Masonic Lodge to see if it was compatible with Biblical Christianity.
    So I guess the only religion that Freemasonry is compatible with is the Mormon religion… Christian churches don’t have the “compass and square” or the “5 points of fellowship” (upside down star) chiseled into their walls. They don’t swear to avenge the death of anybody. Nor do the Christian churches build “temples” with mason-like clothing and rituals… and yes, I have been to the temple… and when I was younger, I helped build a Masonic Temple while working for a construction company in my home town. My father-in-law just passed away last year and he was a 33rd degree Shriner.
    Sure, we pledge alligience to the United States of America, but that doesn’t mean country above all else. We recognize that God is sovereign above all things and it was God who ordained the founding of this country. “God first, others second, myself third”.
    So you are correct; Freemasonry, Masonry, The Craft, The Fraternal Brotherhood, The Order, or any other name you want to call it, is compatible with Mormonism. THAT I will agree with you on.

  10. shematwater July 25, 2011 at 6:22 pm #

    So you have agreed that there is no dilemma for the LDS in regards to Joseph Smith being a Freemason?

    As to your points, that is a single denomination giving what is very poor reasons for declaring it incompatible. Whether you wrote them or someone else did they still carry everything I said.

    I personally know many Christians of all denominations who have no problem with the Freemasons and do not find it incompatible with Christianity. So your opinions are insufficient.

  11. CamdenC July 25, 2011 at 6:45 pm #

    Well it’s too bad those Christians are so easily fooled into thinking that it is some “club” like the Lions or Rotary.
    I, being a follower of Jesus Christ, would feel ashamed in front of my Lord and Savior to call some man, “worshipful master”.
    I will concede on the point that it is a dilemma for the LDS, seeing how that it is compatible with Mormonism.
    But I will not concede on the fact that as a follower of Jesus Christ, I will not compromise myself with anything that does not glorify Him and I will call any “Christian” involved in the craft to repent from their errors. To come back and walk in the Light as He is in the Light.

  12. Al Baurak July 26, 2011 at 5:14 pm #

    Camden, you are operating under a delusion here. You give Shematwater logical data that any normal person can use to make an intelligent decision. Shem gives you back prattle and illogical arguments and will do so until Jesus comes.

    We are warned that Scripture is not open to private Interpretation, yet Shem even butchers one of the clearest, simplest bits of the Word where Jesus clearly said that oaths such as sworn in Masonic ritaul come from evil.. That is His word: EVIL.

    Dump this fool before you end up like him..He is playing you for his own ego and foolish heart.

    Be Blessed…

  13. shematwater July 26, 2011 at 5:14 pm #

    Well, to me such silly things as “worshipful master” and other such phrases are being just a little too picky. I really don’t care much what words they use, as long as the meaning they give them does not put anyone above God.

    After all, it is British custom to refer to high magistrates as Your Worship, which in no way places the magistrate above God.

    The term worship simply means to give adoring reverence or regard. It is not necessarily a word to reference religion devotion to deity.

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