2)“G” rating is mandatory and expected in your vocabulary.
3)If you hurl personal insults around to either me or any of my volunteers you will be banned. This is your only warning.
4)If you accuse me or any of my volunteers of lying, prove it. Show exactly what we lied about with references of which article we did this with. If it is proven there is any information on this site or any of my sites that is factually incorrect I will publicly apologize and pull the wrong material off the site.
5)We look forward to an intellectually honest debate that is filled with respect for each other. Somehow when Mormons come to our site we’ve experienced rude behavior and name calling which is surprising considering they’ve called themselves a Christian.
you and your volenteers dont lie its the lds church and there leaders that lie and try to hide the real truth of the early church and joe smith and bringhem young..you do a fine job of what you do.,.your not a false propet
you are totally wrong!
and yes Lee and Kathy do lie, those who work with them!
Do you, Lee and Kathy Still believe that the lds faith believe we are saved by works only???
Lee and Kathy, and all who fallow are verses 15 and 16!
James Chapter 3
By governing the tongue, we gain perfection—Heavenly wisdom is pure, peaceable, and full of mercy.
1 My brethren, be not many masters, knowing that we shall receive the greater condemnation.
2 For in many things we offend all. If any man offend not in word, the same is a perfect man, and able also to bridle the whole body.
3 Behold, we put bits in the horses’ mouths, that they may obey us; and we turn about their whole body.
4 Behold also the ships, which though they be so great, and are driven of fierce winds, yet are they turned about with a very small helm, whithersoever the governor listeth.
5 Even so the tongue is a little member, and boasteth great things. Behold, how great a matter a little fire kindleth!
6 And the tongue is a fire, a world of iniquity: so is the tongue among our members, that it defileth the whole body, and setteth on fire the course of nature; and it is set on fire of hell.
7 For every kind of beasts, and of birds, and of serpents, and of things in the sea, is tamed, and hath been tamed of mankind:
8 But the tongue can no man tame; it is an unruly evil, full of deadly poison.
9 Therewith bless we God, even the Father; and therewith curse we men, which are made after the similitude of God.
10 Out of the same mouth proceedeth blessing and cursing. My brethren, these things ought not so to be.
11 Doth a fountain send forth at the same place sweet water and bitter?
12 Can the fig tree, my brethren, bear olive berries? either a vine, figs? so can no fountain both yield salt water and fresh.
13 Who is a wise man and endued with knowledge among you? let him shew out of a good conversation his works with meekness of wisdom.
14 But if ye have bitter envying and strife in your hearts, glory not, and lie not against the truth.
15 This wisdom descendeth not from above, but is earthly, sensual, devilish.
16 For where envying and strife is, there is confusion and every evil work.
17 But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, and easy to be entreated, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality, and without hypocrisy.
18 And the fruit of righteousness is sown in peace of them that make peace.
I just happened to stumble upon your site and skimmed over The unforgivning God of Mormons. I take this opportunity to disagree with you, though I am neither a Mormon or a Christian but a simple Muslim. In my view the Mormonic concept of Unforgiving God is correct and is quite similar to that in Islam. In Islam we too believe that God might forgive us if we repented ( In Arabic it is called TauBA) but not while dying ,,,,about our sin or sins and never repeated them again. We Muslims believe that Jesus is our Prophet,,a great Prophet indeed but we do not get forgiven at the ‘cost’ of his blood. and why should we be?? In Islam every person is accountable for this deeds ,,,some here and the rest in the afterlife.
I may suggest you reviewed your outlook about MOrmonic concept which is closer to Islamic beliefs and purview Mormonism or any other religion for that sake beyond Christianity , the religion you seem to confess.
I was a Mormon for 30 years and active most of that time. I joined at age 19. I always wondered about the BOM a little but did not talk about it because I was wary of being called an apostate. As I heard negative comments about the church I would just think that others did not really know Mormon doctrine and i wished they would just mind their own business! But the book of Abraham issue was my huge red flag that all was not well in Zion. I stopped going to church for ten very sad and confused years…thinking about all the callings and money I had given to a probably fake organizationn . The leadership had lied to all of us. Then a wonderful thing happened. I decided to read the earliest Christian authors including bishops and those who were directly taught by the apostles. They did not at all substantiate Mormon doctrine but declared it heresy. Joseph obviously did not restore true Christianity to the earth, but really messed it up.hmmm.who to believe.. Joseph Smith or the leaders of the original church who were taught by the original apostles.. No contest.
There it was in black and white. No more secret wondering if the church was really true..it is not. The only church I have found that has the same original chtistian doctrine and priesthood is the eastern orthodox church
I will happily be baptized next month.. Grateful to God for showing me and my sons the real truth.
ok im a preachers kids and still lost. when it comes to why strangers i met who are mormon lds
say that we believe in the same Jesus/Christ. I ask them if they believe their sinners and bring up adam sin with his wife, to babies are born as sinners you see because their #1. How do you explain the verses in (Rom 5:12-21) and the numerous verses that seem to point to being born a sinner (Isa 48:8)(Ps 51:5)(Ps 58:3)(Eph 2:3)(Job 14:4)(Job 15:14)(Gen 8:21)(Rom 3:23)(Eccl 7:20)(Prov 22:15)(Prov 20:9)(Ps 14:2-3)(Gen 6:5)?
#2. How do you explain the fact that a child almost immediately tends to do wrong at the first possible moment (i.e. greed, tantrums) without even having a chance to learn it?
i’m also trying to find the verse says that you can’t take away or add to Gods scriptures in THE BIBLE, and can’t seem to locate. Joseph Smith added his word, his teachings that don’t even come close to the word, that are perverted and misleading others.
I was looking for a site or sermon or book to help me with witnessing to them, without attacking them in their eyes. i understand going door to door to bring more to the kingdom or missionary trips but our works don’t get us to heaven its Jesus on the cross who shed his blood for my sins and rose again. How do they explain that one. ignore it.? the case for christ movie was exceptionally done. and as the movie says do you want the truth or not
Do you have an e-mail we can send questions or concerns to?
We were baptized into the Mormon Church & are now surrounded with the members (still being in the same town).
I can’t believe how disturbing & painful it is knowing what they’re “taught” to believe or “know to be true”.
It’s dofficult knowing this stuff . 🙁
your site is great no lies no false docterine only the lds church lies about there true histery to cover up joes and bringhem youngs teachings keep up the good work and telling about the false hoods of the church of satian jesuses brother ha ha
Hi Michelle. I just learned about your site from Camden, in a Mormonism related forum on Facebook. I haven’t found an email link, so I’ll just put this message here. You are welcome to copy my own exit story/testimony over at http://www.whyileftmormonism.com, if it fits with what you are doing here. I’ll try to check your site out more later on; I’m using my phone just now, and I prefer using my computer for looking at websites.
Your Ex Mo Bro,
Thanks for posting your contact info and sharing with us the good news of salvation you have in the Lord! Praise God!
I’ll be doing updates on the site in the next few days so I’ll be sure to get your testimony up here – thanks again!
With Love in Christ;
1 Cor 1:18
Michelle, I just found this site and wow… its been great….and boy oh boy do i have a story for you and your readers about my experience with mormonism… from my being forced to attend…baptism…missionaries competition to my current status of being a born again Christian who spends lots of time seeking out Mormon missionaries with the truth of the JESUS OF THE BIBLE… blessings in Christ…
Beware of a Liberian man named Darlington Gbee, a former mormon, who is contacting sites like this to seek money for ‘ministry’ projects. Do not respond to him; he is a scam artist.
Thanks for the heads up Sharon! What a shame people do things like that.
I just recently left the church and got letters from the church for myself, my son, and my daughter. I was a convert to the church in 2004 and went through a divorce (huge amount of emails and records of infidelity against my ex) in 2008/2009 and was literally shunned from who I thought were friends in my ward. I lost my calling, friends wouldn’t speak to me since I was no longer apart of the white-picket fence family! My Bishop and Stake President just wanted to pray about my divorce and hoping that it would all go away. I became an inactive member from that point on and a good friend of mine helped me write my letters and gain my freedom from the church. I look back on my time and I now realize that I was a brain washed sheep and afraid to break the rules. I was recently called an atheist and that I lacked the complete and true understanding of God’s TRUE and only church. I had to laugh at the people that were judging me as they thought they were more glorious than me. When I asked questions to my so called friends at this point they couldn’t even give me an answer that proved they were right. Closed minded people will never understand nor know anything different than what they have been told to believe (lies and more lies).
I know within my heart that Jesus is my savior and will always have my heart. I don’t need an organized religion telling me how to feel and act anymore! Faith is believing in the unknown and knowing that God is real and is for everyone regardless of your affiliation to a religion.
why would you have to gain your freedom from a church. as a preachers kid we have been part of different churches all my life, due to staff changes, childcare needs, etc. we always find a church that meets our kids needs an ours. don’t get me wrong im not looking for a perfect church. their are none. were all sinners and growing, an still learning from God i hope. i have other friends who have left the church and found Christ to be their saviors, and it’s like pulling teeth to understand them. they just told me if anyone comes looking for them for any reason i don’t know where they are and to not give them any information. not that i would, this site has helped me to be able to have a conversation better that gives me things to ask them about because we don’t serve the same God or Jesus in my opinion
I would like to explain some things that come to mind when reading about a few of these experiences with members of the LDS Church.
I would invite you all to remember that no man is perfect in his own right. The only means of perfection in the mortal world is through Christs atonement. The Bible, and also Book of Mormon, have this theme along with repentance of sin.
With this in mind, we must keep in perspective the individual and separate them from the foundation of the Church and the core of its beliefs. For example: each of us, as mortal sons and daughters of God, while part of this eternal family, we are in no way a single representaion of the Great Creator. While some of His children may be a more accurate representation than others, all are not so.
The only way, and or means, of gaining an accurate understanding of God and the LDS Church is to come to overlook the individual and put your trust in the Spirit that knoweth all things.
I believe that there is one of you, that may be doubting the truthfulness of this Church. Very few of us have had the blessing of speaking to our Father in Heaven, and his son in the flesh, witnessing the truthfulness beyond a reasonable doubt. With that in mind, I encourage you to try again and give up not in the plan that our blessed Father in Heaven has made for us.
Brothers and Sisters, do not let the opposition distort your view of reality. Do not let the one the seeketh the internal misery of men and women to take away your choice. Everyday is a new beginning to better ourselves and become more like our Christ.
I assure you that these things are true. I can assure you of these things because of the feelings of purity and utmost love that can only come from one place; God. His love is for all, blessing those that stand before him whether in His Church or apart from, because he sees our greatest potential and wants nothing more than to see His children happy.
I am more than willing to help anyone that has concerns with the Church. Please feel free to comment and I’ll try to respond appropriately.
I have read your comments and they are very good. I have studied with the LDS and they as most of you refuse the name of God. Jesus and the heavenly father commanded us to make his NAME KNOWN . Yet the orders that we have received through the laws commandments. Luke 11:2
Let your NAME be sanctified, Matt.6:9, You must pray this way Let your name be sanctified. Jesus said in John 17:26 I have made your Name KNOWN Jehovah. Mormons and you don’t use the name with all you wrote about God? There are many gods and many lords…..so who are you talking about. Mormons and you don’t have the begining of knowledge Prov.1:7 ,9:10 John 17:3 Col. 3:10 clothe your self with accurate knowledge. I pray for you and the LSD
To Karen –
Amen! And thanks for sharing your thoughts!
Life After Ministries
Since you called off any further private emailing, I will post this on the internet.
To help you improve your image, I will give you a few suggestions. It will help you polish up your radio program and so that your listeners will take you more seriously. If you decide to talk about any of these same issues on your program again, you will be better prepared to come across as more informed.
I only heard part of your program on Saturday, July 18th, so these will not be in order, nor is it a complete coverage.
No hard feelings
GOOF 1: The Melchizedek Priesthood was held only by Jesus and Melchizedek (BTW, Lee, most Christians claim Melchizedek was the pre-mortal Christ).
Lee, the book of Hebrews speaks of the “order of Melchizedek.” It says the M.P was an “order,” from the Greek word, taxis, which means “a succession,” one after another. Not just 1 person.
The word Melchizedek means “King of Righteousness.” It is a royal title that has godly connotations. When Peter said “ye are a royal priesthood” (1 Peter 2:9), he was speaking of early Christians who were part of the succession of Melchizedek.
GOOF 2: Only priests of the tribe of Levi performed ordinances in the temple.
Lee, that was during the Mosaic dispensation. The Bible says that in the last days the Lord will no longer require priests to be of the tribe of Levi, but that He will even accept gentiles as priests (Isaiah 66:19-21)!
GOOF 3: In the Bible times, only the priest entered the temple.
That was during the Mosaic dispensation. The book of Revelation says that in the future (our day) “a great multitude” (Rev.7:9) will serve God in the temple.
GOOF 4: In the Bible, the clothing of the priest of the temple had colors and gems.
That was during the Mosaic dispensation. The book of Revelation says that in the future, the multitudes would be “clothed in white robes” (Rev.7:9).
GOOF 5: I thought I heard you say that the Mosaic priest entered the temple only once a year.
That was during the Mosaic dispensation. The book of Revelation says that in the future, multitudes will serve God “day and night in his temple” (Rev.7:15).
GOOF 6: The LDS temple ordinances had nothing to do with the Biblical temple sacrifices.
There are many Bible verses, Lee, which parallel LDS temple ordinances. For starters, read Isaiah chapter 21:20-25. It tells about being clothed with special robes, that the “girdle,” or sash, was a symbol of strength, that certain governing powers were committed into one’s hand, and that the “key of the house of David” (the sealing power) will be layed upon one’s shoulder (from the loops on the robes). Bible scholars say that the “nail in a sure place” spoken of in verses 23 and 25 are references to Jesus Christ, who would be nailed to the cross. Another verse you might check is in Ezra 9:8, which invites the people, not just the priest, to receive a “nail” in the “holy place” (another word for the temple).
GOOF 7: The LDS temple ceremony doesn’t speak of our Savior Jesus Christ.
Maybe I misunderstood or missed something. Maybe you’ve forgotten. Maybe a spirit of contention has cast a shadow over your mind. Besides speaking of Christ’s role as Jehovah many times, and besides the reference to the Savior as the saving “nail,” as you remember, the name of one of the tokens has reference to the Son of God.
GOOF 8: 34 women were married to Joseph Smith.
Why didn’t you clarify that many of the women who were sealed to Joseph Smith were sealed as daughters, not wives? Similarly, many men were sealed to Joseph and Brigham as sons (See Bennett, “Line upon Line,” 62–67; Gordon Irving, “The Law of Adoption: One Phase of Development of the Mormon Concept of Salvation, 1830–1900,” BYU Studies 14, no. 3 [Spring 1974]: 291–314.).
And of the women who were sealed as wives, why didn’t you tell how many were merely “dynastic” marriages?
And what about post-mortem sealings of living women to the deceased Joseph Smith?
Why didn’t you admit that the women were not sealed for time, but for eternity?
Why didn’t you admit that geneticists have not found any of Joseph Smith’s DNA outside of Emma’s children?
As you bring up polyandry, you are being critical of the Bible and its heroes. For example, David, whom Peter described as a prophet and a patriarch (Acts 2:29-30) took Phaltiel’s wife to be his own wife (2 Sam.3:13-15), leaving Phaltiel weeping (verse 16). If you can accept the Biblical prophets, you can accept the LDS prophets.
GOOF 9: Joseph Smith was evil and did wicked things.
Again, Lee, you are criticizing your own Bible. Here’s more on the prophet/patriarch David. If you can believe and trust the Bible, you can much more easily return to Mormonism.
For example, David, who was described as a prophet on the day of Pentecost (Acts 2:29-30), and which the Bible states that “David did that which was right in the eyes of the Lord, and turned not aside from anything that he commanded him all the days of his life, save only in the matter of Uriah the Hittite” (1 Kings 15:5), committed many acts which were unbecoming of a prophet:
He “shamelessly uncovered himself “ in front of his handmaids (2 Sam.6:20).
He used “blackmail” in threatening to kill Nabal’s household if they did not give up their wealth (1 Sam.25:7-8).
He was cruel to animals in mutilating hundreds of horses by houghing them (cutting their hamstrings) (2 Sam.8:4).
He mutilated 200 of his enemies by cutting off their penises to use them to bribe King Saul to give his daughter to David (1 Sam.18:27).
He had a harem of hundreds of wives and concubines (2 Sam.5:13).
He imprisoned 10 of his concubines for life (2 Sam.20:3).
He peeked and watched a woman bathing (2 Sam.11:2).
He performed human sacrifice to appease the Lord (2 Sam.21:1-14).
He committed adultery with Bathsheba (2 Sam11:4).
He had Uriah killed to cover the adultery (2 Sam.11:15)
He killed one who, in David’s defense, had taken the life of an enemy who had been trying to assassinate David (2 Sam.4:8-10).
He tortured the citizens of the cities he conquered with axes and saws and made them pass through kilns (2 Sam.12:31; 1 Chron.20:3).
He massacred whole nations, including women, and took their possessions (1 Sam.27:8-9).
He lined up a group disarmed prisoners, made them lie down on the ground, and killed half of them (2 Sam.8:2).
He died demanding the blood of 2 men (1 Kings 2:5-9).
Good, that you say you want to be honest; if only the words made it so.
Your lies are your mischaracterizations.
Your lies are that you tell only -some- of the truth.
Your lies are that there are answers and discussions to be raised against virtually all of your criticisms here, but you give
little if any hint of them, in any serious way — yet you pretend here to “intellectual honesty”.
Your lies are your hypocrisies, that you preach your own irrational, easily accusable faith but give no opportunity for either
faith claims or rationality to your targets.
Your lies are the many logically irrelevant emotionalisms you attach to your already logically insufficient attacks.
Your darkest lies are those told against your own souls — that, day after day, you labor in vain, unawares, against the
kingdom of your own God, while your own enemy the Devil rages abroad and in your own hearts, unresisted by you, as
far as anybody here can tell. …That there is actual evil, actual misery in the world, and you spend your energies battling
against the good who battle that evil.
“They that plow iniquity, and sow wickedness, reap the same.”
You want exact references. Well, o.k., here’s one…
“Making matters worse, they lied in the Church run newspaper, Deseret News, by stating past prophets had prophesied
all men would one day be granted the priesthood. The rest of the untold story is how Brigham Young said everyone
would receive the priesthood only after everyone in the world had been born.”
But, it is true that various past prophets had prophesied that; the lie is yours. You then correctly told that Brigham did
have more to say, but it was not as you misunderstood it.
Brigham is reported to have said, before the curse would be removed:
-Negroes would go down to death
True, all with African heritage at that time did die before the rescindment.
-The seed of Abel/Adam would all need to be born/resurrected
Pause here; untrue. The revelation was, that remainder would need to “receive the promises”, “take precedence”, “have
their opportunity”, and “have the privilege of receiving the Priesthood” and blessings (including the assurance of future resurrection) flowing from the receipt. They did, by 1978 — that is, the family of Adam had had sufficient privilege and opportunity of the priesthood — both those who had directly heard, and those who, by virtue of the broad establishment of the gospel, will hear, or will have had parents who rejected it in their behalf.
Lund’s analysis of post-millennial rescindment and Joseph Fielding Smith’s assumption of a “far distant future” are
unnecessary, not connected with the promised earthly rescindment. Despite what these propositions (and Jesus’ “seed
of the devil” sermon, John 8:44) may say of a spiritual “adoption” to Cain, physically speaking, Seth already would have
raised up seed to his brother in an early levirate marriage (Matthew 22:24).
If a length-constrained news article’s omission of additional context does violence to the truth, how have you not outdone them by ignoring such mitigating factors in this (and every other) unlimited condemnation?
I like your rule #5
We look forward to an intellectually honest debate that is filled with respect for each other. Somehow when Mormons come to our site we’ve experienced rude behavior and name calling which is surprising considering they’ve called themselves a Christian
You’re not really surprised for the name calling since you constantly misrepresent their faith and use loaded language and mock the things they find most sacred? All of the misrepresentations, and biased narratives totally represent your mission for honesty and respect right? Besides, if there is any thing I’ve gathered from reading on this site, is that you don’t believe they are Christians. So don’t try to act like you are the only people who can bestow the title of “Christian” and then award it to them only in jest. The name of Christ isn’t something to be taken lightly and childishly used to degrade others in order to pitifully shed some victimhood on yourselves.