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Mormon Mailbag
This section will allow readers to see what others write to us and our replies to the many Mormons we engage. It will be both educational to Mormons and non-mormons alike as well as engaging and enlightening for those who share our passion for witnessing to Mormons. We hope you find this area useful. If you wish to send us your opinion about our site or have questions about Christianity or Mormonism, don’t hesistate to write us.
The following emails are real. We received these from visitors to our site. Their last names and email addresses have been deleted to protect their indenties and privacy.
To: Life After Ministries
I have been reading some articles at your website. I’ve really never known much about mormonism. I was raised a nondenominational christian. A few weeks ago a couple of young men stopped by the house and started talking to me. They were mormon missionaries. They have been coming by my house since that day. I thought I should research mormonism because other christians were saying things about them and telling me not to talk to them. When they came today, I asked them a few questions and I seemed to get mixed messages from them. One of them seemed a little offended and asked me “why did you invite us here?” (Which actually I did not ask them to come, they asked me if they could come). The other simply replied that he didn’t know the answers to my questions and he said he would look into these things for an answer. The things these boys said today certainly ‘sounded’ christian. It just seemed like everything I asked them they had some kind of answer for and now that I read your article on ‘mormon terminology’ I don’t know what to think. I feel so confused. I’m not even sure why I’m writing to you now. They seem so nice and so sincere. They are always trying to get me to come to church. Today they told me that so many people tell lies about them. I just feel so disappointed that they didn’t answer my bottom line questions. I guess I have to wonder why, the Book of Mormon was changed so many times. I told these boys that in the original book, the term was used ” mother of God” and now the same passage says ” mother of the son of god”. They said it was a typo. But then I showed them another example of the same thing and also the place where the 1830 edition says “the everlasting god was judged of the world” and this was changed to ” the son of the everlasting god”. Then they said they’ve never heard of these changes and they implied that all these things were lies. They kept telling me how much they believe in this book and how it’s changed their lives and how they know it is the word of god. I feel very pressured by them and I’m not sure if I should talk to them again. I really don’t know what to do. Do you have any advice for me?
Sincerely,
Tammy
Dear Tammy,
I wrote a reply to you yesterday and to make a long story short I sent it without the content of my letter to you in an effort to “cut and paste”. That probably didn’t make sense however, suffice it to say, I sent you a reply with nothing on it. So, I really want to apologize right off the bat! : )
Michelle Grim asked that I write to you re: your email entitled “confused”. When I read your letter it brought back a flood of memories when I joined the Mormon church thirty five years ago. I remember the lessons that I had been taught from the Mormon Missionaries and I remember the times I started to feel confused.
The wonderful part of your experience, Tammy, is that you are searching. God never leaves us and when we are searching the amazing part is He is always faithfully there for us. Thank God He revealed Himself to me twelve years ago.
Something to consider is that the missionaries you are speaking to did not come on their mission searching as you are. They came on their two year mission with the expectation of teaching lost souls of the “one and only true church upon the face of the earth”. The sad part is they don’t understand the history of what their own church teaches and they are not taught to delve in to that part of study. They are given a series of “discussions” to learn. These discussions have been developed over the years and the Mormon church has spent millions of dollars in training techniques that you would find being taught to sales representatives in fortune five hundred companies. So, it is very interesting to me when I read that you asked these questions and they either got frustrated and wanted to know “why did you invite us here” or the other simply had never heard the information you are relaying to them.
Historians spend nearly their whole lives gathering information regarding a subject. They will research documents, letters, diaries, journals and whatever else bits and pieces of information they can find and they write books regarding all the massives hours of research they have obtained. The interesting part of history is that it does not lie.
The Journal of Discourses has been a published work of the Mormon church since the church’s conception! As late as only twenty five years ago this compilation of Mormon history was even used in Sunday School and other church classes. However, the expense of this huge volume of books was such that not every church member had these volumes in their homes. Actually, very few did. The books were never studied from cover to cover for the history of what the church was exactly about. Now, because of our technology in the world today, anyone can purchase a DVD with all of the Journal of Discourse writings for a very inexpensive cost. Because so much of the information in their is so damning to the Mormon Church they do not consider it’s teachings as valid any longer.
Now that is very interesting to me.
I am sure much of the information you have discovered and were relaying to these missionaries is information they have never been taught. The fun part is that you are actually being a missionary to them!!!!
You write that you are confused and my hope and my desired prayer is that I can help you with your confusion.
We as mortals want to make Salvation such a difficult thing when in reality it is so very simple and easy. Let me quote from the Bible.
John 3:16
“For God so [Rom 5:8; Eph 2:4; 2 Thess 2:16; 1 John 4:10; Rev 1:5] loved the world, that He [Rom 8:32; 1 John 4:9] gave His [John 1:18; 3:18; 1 John 4:9] only begotten Son, that whoever [John 3:36; 6:40; 11:25] believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.
Jesus didn’t tell us that in order to obtain true salvation we had to be a member of a particular church that would have a prophet. He didn’t say that we would need to go to a temple and perform blood oaths to enter a mysterious heavenly realm. Jesus said,
John 14:6
“I am [John 10:9; Rom 5:2; Eph 2:18; Heb 10:20] the way, and [John 1:14] the truth, and [John 1:4; 11:25; 1 John 5:20] the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me.”
You don’t need to be taught a series of discussions to enter heaven. You don’t need to be part of a “club” of sorts to be in with Jesus.
You need to accept Him as your Savior, to believe in His words and to follow Him. It’s really kind of easy but the adversary would love you to think it is the hardest task in the world. The adversary would love you to think that you must perform a miriad of amazing good works to ensure yourself this marvelous place by His side and even after doing “all that you can do” you still never are really sure if you made it. The reality is that the greatest of all humans can never do enough to ensure salvation in heaven. Never. The assurance of salvation and an eternal life with a Father who loves us to perfection is the blood of Jesus. It was His dying upon the cross that allowed us to accept that He is our savior and only through His death can we have life eternal.
The Mormon church teaches that you must have a Prophet to lead and direct you to salvation. They promote Joseph Smith and Brigham Young as the greatest latter day prophets of our time. However, the bible is very clear regarding a true prophet. If just one thing they teach is a lie than they are not a prophet. The Journal of Discourses (remember, history does not lie) has quotes from these men over and over and over stating untruths, stating ridiculous claims, stating teachings that at that time were considered gospel, that now the church totally disclaims.
So, my dear one Tammy, I don’t think you are as confused as you thought. I think you really do know the truth, however, these young men have claims that are so way “out there” that is what confuses you.
God bless you Tammy as you search. You are becoming your own historian by all the research that you are doing. I will be praying for you and for those young men who have been, in their own way, trying to find truth themselves.
John 8:32
Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.”
Jesus is the way and the truth and the life.
Love in Christ,
Alice
Hi Alice,
Thank you very much for your reply. I honestly don’t know why I felt so confused the day I wrote that email. Since then I have done even more research and I am convinced this is false teaching and false gospel. I want to thank those of you who run the life after website. Thank you so much for speaking the truth!
One of the questions I had asked the missionaries was concerning the Articles of Faith, pg. 390 which states:
“We believe in a God who is Himself progressive, whose majesty is intelligence; whose perfection consists in eternal advancement- a Being who has attained His exalted state…”
This came about after a discussion where they told me “God never changes”. This is the reason one seemed to get a little irritated and the other simply stated he has never read this. I encouraged him to check into this and a few other things.
At the end of the day, the truth stands on it’s own merit. It doesn’t have to be propped up by men. History itselft proves the accuracy of the bible and the book of Mormon simply doesn’t have that.
I hope and pray with all my heart that these missionaries will research the history of their church.
You know something though, it hit me that Christ is not dead..He is risen! He is our Prophet and our High Priest. We don’t need another! The one true church has no walls..no boundaries and isn’t run by men. So I don’t know why I felt so confused..a moment of weakness maybe.. I think terminology played a part in my confusion as well. But now, I can see clearly 😉
Thank you again for your words of encouragement! We must never lose sight of the true Christ! He said “My sheep will hear my voice and a stranger they will not follow”… very sobering words!
May God bless you all!
In Christ, Tammy
From: Julie
Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2007 7:32 AM
To: info@lifeafter.org
Subject: For Michelle Grim “CentennialPark” article
For the first time I saw the TV special program, “The Others” last night.
Something made me curious enough to wake up today and do a bit of research about it. I was raised catholic, so I don’t know much about fundamental Mormonism, but while watching that program-I just couldn’t believe the women and how easy going they were regarding their lives they led. As if they were in some dream-state, as if they were primed before the show as to what to say. It really bothered me. I’m all for everyone believing in their own religion, and I don’t think that the word Feminist is a bad word, nor do I think it is a bad thing. It simply has gotten a bad wrap because of a few wild people, but I felt a bit angered and somewhat of a feminist when I saw these women. I just wanted to tell them to WAKEUP! You have a voice, you should never be second in line when it comes to being married to your husband. I just felt as if there was a seriously lack of self-respect.
Anyway, I read this article, and I must say it was amazing. Coming from a point of view of someone who could explain it so that I could understand it.
The statistics about Utah and the polygamist being sexually abused and incest is amazing, however, it makes sense. I just want to thank Michelle for writing this, because what she wrote needs to be read by many people. I am interested in reading more about people who ‘got-out’ of polygamy, and their trials and tribulations they have had to face. As I mentioned I love and respect religion, but, to me-I don’t’ believe that God would want humans to be treated like that, like animals.
From: Clayton
To: Melissa
Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2007 11:42 PM
Subject: Re:
Why read the Bible when the Book of Mormon has a more accurate record of the Saviors ministry. The Bible is correct as far as it is translated correctly. Joseph Smith saw the Savior and spoke with him. “Praise to the man who communed with Jehova” Will you just pray abnoiut it once more. Tomorrow i will show you proof Joseph told the truth.
From: Melissa
To: Clayton
Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2007 9:02 PM
Subject: Re:
Clayton,
I have prayed about it and I’ve studied my Bible. I know that LDS church isn’t worshiping the Jesus of the Bible, and that Joseph and all the men that followed him are/were false prophets. They preached another gosple, one that made what Jesus and God said a lie. I have no desire to follow after a gosple that isn’t going to get me to Heaven. One that won’t let have the promises of Jesus Christ.
What is it about the LDS people were they think that they are the only happy people? Please, I’ve seen happier people at the dentist office. My happiness comes from Jesus Christ, and the love and grace he has shown me, not from a church. Yes, I love going to church, it’s great to actually hear songs about Jesus, and to hear a message, from the Bible that’s about him, but in the end it’s only a building, nothing more.
I was never following the Savior when I was LDS. I was following Joseph Smith’s Jesus. Having been LDS I know where your line of questioning is coming from. My heart aches for the LDS people, they are in bondage. I know that you believe you are a Christian, that you are following the Jesus of the Bible, but you are not. I believed that I was a Christian too, when I was LDS, and it broke my heart when God revealed the truth to me.
I ask you to really dig into your Bible, read and study it with an open mind. Be open to the possibility that Joseph lied to you, to all of us. Jesus is the only one that saves you, not the LDS doctrines. You will only get to Heaven and to the Father through him, not Joseph, or any other LDS leader.
” Grow in grace and in the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ” 2 Peter 3:18
In Christ,
Melissa
melissa@lifeafter.org
From: Clayton
To: melissa@lifeafter.org
Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2007 3:20 PM
Pray about coming back ok? We miss you and love you ok? You do have a Bishop that loves and prays for you. Your last arguments were stretches. Get back to happiness. Get back to following the savior
Clayton,
Thank you again for writing. Below you will find my comments in purple.
In Christ,
Melissa
melissa@lifeafter.org
From: Clayton
To: Melissa
Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2007 6:01 PM
Subject: Re: your webiste
What are the rel reasons you left the church? I don’t buy that you simply didn’t have a testimony of Joseph Smith. It’s impossible not to have a testimony of the prophet if you have asked. The Lord sustains the prophet everytime the question is asked of him. It is a promise given to all men, and that promise is the sure confirmation that Joseph Smith told the truth. I exhort you to ask the Lord once more.
I was in the LDS church for 13 years. I can assure you I do know the church doctrine.
13 years! Not enough. I remind you that you at one point has a testimony of the Gospel. You had a testimony that you belonged to the Lords true church. That was during a time where the spirit was with you Sister Grimes. Now that the spirit is gone whose voice whispers in your mind.
As you are talking about me losing the “spirit”, I keep thinking about what I’ve read in the Bible about “familiar spirits”. To put it plainly “familiar spirits” were and are not good things to have. The so called “spirit” in Mormonism, the burning in the bosom, is not of God. It’s leading people away from him. God tells us in Leviticus 20:6, that if we turn to familiar spirits, he will cut us off from him.
Your views are totally different from views you once sustained and loved. Something is wrong with that.
Actually there is nothing wrong with that. I’ve been saved, saved from the bondage of Mormonism, so yes my views have changed. I sustained them because I believed what I was told, I didn’t question or study it for myself. I was taught that “once a prophet or church leader has spoken the thinking has been done”.
The God and Jesus in Mormonism need matter unorganized in order to create the world. The God of the Bible spoke things in to existence, just read the first book of Genesis. When Jesus was on the boat all he had to do was tell the water to be still and it happened.
We don’t know all of the details of the creation, but we do know the Lord organized matter. The Lord is an organizer. He contiues to organize things, even the church into this day. We both know where this reference comes from without me having to mention it. You had a wonderful thing shown to you. The origin of our world and the ACTUAL dialog that went into the creation between our Father and The Savior.
The ACTUAL dialog? How do you truly know that it was the actual dialog? Why are you putting your own salvation in the hands of a mortal man because of what he said?
The name Jehovah ( Yahweh) in Hebrew means Self-Existent or Eternal. God is self-existent, in that he doesn’t need anything or anyone to exist. You are right Jesus is Jehovah, God in the Old Testament. The difference is, the LDS believe that Jesus is a created being. The Bible teaches that Jesus has always existed. In John 1 :1 it tells us that “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.” Jesus is the Word, John 1:14 says “And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us,( and we behold his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father) full of grace and truth.” In John 8:58 Jesus is talking to the Jews he tells them that “Before Abraham was, I am”. In Exodus 3:16 God tells Moses “I AM THAT I AM”.
Jehova means unchangeable one. He was the one who was steadfast and unchangeable concerning Hevanly Fathers plan of Salvation for us. I’m not understanding why you use the scriptures you chose. We already established tha Jesus is the God of the Old Testament. Almost all OT references are to the Savior in his pre existant state….that as being God of this world until eh came in the flesh. While he was God of this world he carried out our Fathers will, who is God of us all.Clearly Jesus is a created being.
No, Satan is the god of this world , remember what was said in the temple film? Look in 2 Corinthians 4:4, “In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.”
When the bible makes reference in the beginning what is being spoken of is the beginning of this Earth. Correct As the Savior was creator of the Earth he was there from the beginning.Correct
We also know he was with the people from the beginning. What people Adam was a prophet for? How was he a prophet if there wasn’t any people? Adam was a prophet. First one that we know. The Savior spoke directly to Adam. I believe Adam beheld his glory after he left the Garden of Eden and knew him.
Adam was cut off from the presents God, Genesis 4:6. God placed an Angel with a flaming sword in the garden to keep him out.
He is the son of Heavenly Father. A distinct different personage. Do you think when the Lord was on the cross…..when he said “father forgive them for they know not what they do?” Was he speaking to himself. Does our God have need to pray to himself or speak of himself in the third person? When he told people pray to the father and not him….was he telling the people not to pray?
I believe that he was indeed praying to his Father. Repeatedly in the Bible Jesus testifies of his Father, that though him he receives his authority. I don’t understand everything about the Trinity. I don’t feel that I need to, I just need to trust in God and in what he tells me in the Bible.
I sustain what you have said. Clearly they are seperate beings one in purpose. You do need to know the nature of your father in heaven, it is his desire that the aughter he loves so much know who he is.
NO, THEY ARE THREE PERSONS ONE GOD.
Use the common sense our Father has blessed you with
Thank you so much for your concern, but I do use the brain and common sense God gave me. He told me to use the Bible as my guide, to be aware of false prophets, teachers, and Christ’s. That Jesus is the only way to him. That I must except his son, to be born-again or I can not have everlasting life. To me the Bible makes perfect sense, if we knew everything about God then he wouldn’t be God. 2 Timothy 3:15-16 says “And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus”. ” All scripture is given by inspiration of God and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof for correction, for instruction in righteousness.” I believe what Jesus has told me in the Bible. I place my complete trust in him. As I said before I don’t feel like I need to have an answer for every single thing. I understand that there are things that I won’t know in this life, that God in his wisdom may reveal those things to me in the next.
I know something has hurt you, and caused you to go astray. WHAT HURT ME WAS THE DOCTRINES OF MORMONISM. I learned that I was lied too. I discovered that I wasn’t truly a Christian, because I wasn’t worshiping the Jesus of the Bible. I left Mormonism and came to know the Lord. I testify to you that the works of God continue. The Savior was ressurected so that he may continue the works of god. His works are accomplished throgh HIS church. That church is the church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. There are no more “works”. Jesus said in John 19:30, “It is finished”. He completed the work, God sent him here to do. Any church that worships the Jesus of the Bible, IS his church. The so called “church” is a body of saved men and women.There is no “only true church”. It’s the people who are the church, the “church” isn’t a building. In 1 Cor12:14-27, Paul compares the church body to the human body. You know this, you have borne testimony concerning this fact in the past, The sirit has revealed the truth unto you. Again, familiar spirits comes to my mind, Leviticus 19:31. I will put your name on the Temple prayer list. I want you to know the Lord forgives.
I know the Lord forgives, Psalms 13o is wonderful. Leaving the LDS church isn’t something I have to ask forgiveness for, because I did nothing wrong. I have however asked for forgiveness for falling away from the real Jesus, and for following after another gospel ,Galatians 1:8-9.
If you’ve been excommunicated, talk to your Bishop.I don’t have a Bishop, and I wasn’t excommunicated, I resigned from the church. He loves you and will help you through your trials. The Lord wants you once more to be counted among his faithful children. Don’t eprive yourself of life saving ordinances. Your decision doesn’t just effect you it effects your posteritiy…think about these things.
John 10:27-28, “My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: And I give unto them eternal life: and they shall never perish, neither shall any man puck them out of my hand”. I know Jesus now, as a Mormon I didn’t, I couldn’t , because they do not worship him, the REAL Jesus. You aren’t even allowed to have a relationship with him, or pray to him. I know that I am counted as one of his sheep. There isn’t any Mormon doctrine, prophets, or phony priesthood that ever can change that fact.
In Christ,
Melissa Grimes
melissa@lifeafter.org
Hello Amy,
Thank you for emailing us at Life After Ministries. I want to address your concerns and questions. Please scroll down to see my response.
God Bless,
Melissa
From: Amy
Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2007 4:25 PM
To: info@lifeafter.org
Subject:
I stumbled on one of your articles while doing research for a class I teach and after reading it I just want to say that you should be spending your time trying to uplift and edify people instead of spending your time spreading nonsense and trying to denigrate an entire class of people.
I agree with you. There is no better way to spend your time than to share with people God’s plan of Salvation. I think it’s important for people to be introduced to the Biblical Jesus. I wish more people could know that there is liberty in Jesus Christ.(Luke 4:18) The LDS people are being held captive by the ideas of man (their church leaders). I want them to know that the Jesus of the Bible can give them peace and freedom from their bondage. All they have to do is accept him and ask him into their hearts.
You will find that most LDS people are kind, generous, and loving people who devote themselves to improving themselves and helping others.
I agree with you again. There are some LDS who possess those qualities you mentioned. Just as their are Christians, Jews,and probably atheist who exhibit those traits as well. You don’t have to be LDS to be a good person or to want to reach out and help those in need.
Of the evilness of those aims! The Lord has also said that By their fruits ye shall know them. You have accused them of trying to be educated, of keeping busy with righteous endeavors, and raising strong loving families. It seems to me that you would be better to spend your time helping those who truly need it. The LDS church is constantly improving the world with their compassion and humanitarian service, they are always one of the first to the scene of a disaster and work at taking care of their members and those in their communities.
The LDS are not the only ones who have compassion and provide humanitarian service. The LDS church doesn’t hold the patent on doing good things, and making the world a better place. There are many people and organizations out there who do great things, that won’t hear about on the 6 o’clock news.The LDS do those things as part of their “good works”. They believe if they do enough good works they can earn their way to Heaven. Look at the Young Women’s Theme, by doing “good works” you will be preparing yourself to “enjoy the blessing of exaltation”.This reminds of a versus found in Ephesians 2:8-9. We are saved by grace, not of good “works, lest any man should boast”.Don’t get me wrong. I’m not saying that the LDS people don’t genuinely care for those in need. I’m just saying that in the back of their minds they believe that they are working and earning their way to the CelestialKingdom.
I found your author’s day to day list of a Mormon’s routine ludicrous and laughable. I feel pity for her that she was raised in a home that was so obviously devoid of the Lord’s spirit and the true beauty of this religion.
I don’t understand why it’s so amusing to you. If you are being a good Latter Day Saint you are engaged in many things through out the week. Every week may not be booked but your are expected to keep busy. D&C 88:124
There is so much evil in the world and I have always found it sad that obviously good and hardworking people like you will waste your time trying to bring down an organization bent on doing good.
I don’t think I am wasting my time, but thank you for your concern. I am spending my time on people who really need it. I believe I am doing what the Lord has called me to do. If I didn’t believe that the LDS people loved Jesus, I wouldn’t be doing this. I am only the messenger, it is up to the person to do what they want with the message. There is a lot of evil in the world. Because of that, I am very concerned about people who waste their time on religions that won’t lead them to the Biblical Jesus. I am very concerned about the LDS people. They are trapped in a Church that is starving them spiritually.
You will only harm yourselves in the end. Well, it is Thursday so according to your article I should be in “some meeting or at the temple or doing something else” so I better run along!
I don’t think I will be harming myself in the end. (Matt 25:21) I am merely a servant to the Lord, I will follow his will. He is my only judge. I care only want he thinks about me, no one else.
Thanks for your time!
Amy
Take Care and God Bless,
Melissa
I am a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. I saw your picture of the NauvooTemple on the website. I was interested when I saw the circles of the star, moon, and sun. However, what you said about the signs were false. These “symbols” are representitive of the three degrees of glory. You also mentioned about how there was no “Jesus Christ” in that temple. That is also false. The NauvooTemple was dedicated as a House of the Lord. There is also a sign on the front of the Temple that clearly states the dedication. If you would like to learn more, you can go the website www.mormon.org. Thank you for your time and I would appreciate it if you would not put false information on your website.
Thank you,
A Member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints
From: Ann ——- [mailto:…..@msn.com]
Sent: Sunday, October 15, 2006 2:39 PM
To: michelle@lifeafter.org
Subject: RE: Good grief
Good, stay where you are…I’m happy for you. I already told you, it is the entire spirit of your website that is offensive. The whole reason for it’s existence it seems is because you lived a religion that you decided you couldn’t live…so now instead of getting on with your life, you spent your trying to make the religion be in the wrong when in fact it’s most likely you! And who are? One minute you’re Michael the next minute you’re Michelle.
Listen, if I want to know about what Mormons believe…I’m wise enough to go ask mormons, not some appostate liar. Firstly from what little I know, if you are black…and you found it offensive that the blacks were then given some sort of priesthood as you say in your site…then you did not go on a mission, because from what little I know…without being ordained an elder you cannot go on a mission…so that is a lie…and one lie is enough to prove to me you are lieing about all of it. What has made you so angry at the mormons that you would do a whole site and even start a church (of your own now that’s pretty big headed don’t you think?)
I’m not angry…I’ll say it one more time so maybe even you can comprehend. I am not angry. I was doing research for a paper…and I came upon your site. I couldn’t believe what I was reading..of course someone who doesn’t take the time to study it for themselves will believe your words…because like you it’s probably what they want to hear. You’re lieing. You know it I know it and God knows it…the rest will all find out in good time.
Now, please…get out of my mailbox with your satanic garbage you’re tyring to pass off as crhist. Go flog your dribble elsewhere…and beg for your dimes to do it. That’s even more sick…just another idiot trying to make a living spewing garbage on the internet.
Please don’t bother responding. You haven’t said one truthful thing yet Michael or Michelle or whatever you are…first figure out what you are and then start maybe you’ll be sane enough to preach to someone else.
God Bless…you surely will need it!
I loved the website. I especially love your program to get those in metropolitan areas to come together to stop missionaries from proselyting in their area. Well, uh, there went that whole freedom of religion thing, huh. Are you next going to try and stop the Hoover salesman from selling his vacuums in your area because the vacuum sucks in a way you don’t agree with? Hey, I know how you could get more volunteers, you could go down to “Bigots R’ Us” and purchas some pitchforks and torches (in bulk of course, since the volunteers are going to be coming in droves) and assemble yourselves chanting “Chase the darn’ed Mormons” or somthing equally as witty. What do you think? Put this email up on your website and maybe your subscribers can recommend some good brands of face-darkening soot. Good luck,
-Matt
Dear Matthew;
We wanted to let you know that we’ll be praying for you. It breaks my heart to read e-mails like yours. I’m not offended, I’m not irritated as you are, I’m just very, very sad for you.
Where in the website do you see anything that says we hate you, that we’re “out to get you” or that we would want anything for you but the very best? If you can just show me just one thing that we’ve lied about I will publicly apologize and pull it from the site immediately.
If you’re so absolutely positive that we’ve lied about anything, all you have to do is go to www.lds.org and check out the references that we generously provide throughout our articles.
Would love to get your response to what made you so angry.
With Love in Christ;
Michelle Grim
1 Cor. 1:18
We have done some editing on this email exchange for the sake of space. These are excerpts from an email exchange that covered many topics in response to an article on our site titled “Islam vs. Mormonism”. We have included the exchange as it pertains to changes in the Book of Mormon. You can see how the visitors point of view changes as the exchange goes forward.
From: Brian
Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2006
To: Kirk-Life After
Subject: RE: Islam vs Mormonism
Mohammad never wrote the Quaran, and it was not finished until at least 18 years after his death and final versions were not had for over 150 years after much political infighting and “editing.” The Quaran requires the Hadith to be remotely “understood,” if such a thing is possible, and is not Chronological like the Bible. The book of Mormon was finish in three months of translation, and has not be changed, other than spelling errors. It is also very easy to understand, and much more so than the Bible, not to mention written by many different persons based on writing analysis.
From: Kirk-Life After
Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2006
To: Brian
Subject: RE: Islam vs Mormonism
The statement that the BOM has not been changed other than spelling errors is completely false. Smith claimed that it was a word for word translation that he dictated and was the most correct of any book on earth, so it shouldn’t even have those. The BOM has had over 4000 changes that consist of much more that spelling. The book of Alma has 32 more chapters in the 1920 version than it does in the 1908 version. In 2 Nephi 30:6 “a white and delightsome” was changed to “a pure and a delightsome”. This a very significant change and much more so if you look at the time frame between 1976 and 2005 when the Mormon Church decided to accept blacks into the priesthood. I believe you are also in error about the Bible being chronologically written. For example, the events in the Book of Job probably took place closer to Genesis events than after the Kings of Israel. And in the New Testament the Book of Hebrews was written before the Gospel of John.
From: Brian
Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2006
To: Kirk-Life After
Subject: RE: Islam vs Mormonism
There could be a billion changes and it would be accurate. You misunderstood JS. Look at the dependent clause. The BOM is the most accurate in leading people to God, not in spelling errors. The orginal manuscript did not even have punctuation. The word pure is more accurate. White is another way of saying pure. The priesthood was not denied to black skinned people, just Negroes, kind of like Levi was the only tribe allowed to hold the priesthood (inverse of black) so the black/Negro connection made by using the word “white” misses the point and causes confusion. The meaning was clearly unchanged. As for the priesthood thing, cooper does it well. Come on. Repeating this 4000 changes thing is so old and tired. It destroys your credibility, and only makes people question your honesty. Have you ever translated anything?? I have. I have a 1876 Martin Luther Bible in old German script. It ain’t no King James Bible for sure. The Bible, by nature of various translations, must have millions of “changes.” Now, as a Christian, you now have knowledge. Since you have knowledge you are legally and morally obligated not to repeat the spin.
Repeating the 4000 changes nonsense is telling a big lie. So, if I see you post it on your web page, I will know you are a liar, which of course you are not, right… It is up to you. In fact each point of fact made and clarified by me requires you to stop spinning it, or you are sinning. Which begs the question of, if all this stuff has been totally refuted many times over and over and over and over by Mormons and people still persist on repeating it, what does it make them all. Frauds. Now the real question is whether one should file a lawsuit and sue the living daylights out of these frauds. It isn’t my style, but the thought has crossed my mind. Come on, Kirk, do what Christ would do. Stop the baring of false witness and stop the spin. But, on the other hand, “there must needs be opposition in all things…” according to the BOM, so keep up the good (bad) work. Someone has to do the bad deed.
From: Kirk-Life After
Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2006
To: Brian
Subject: RE: Islam vs Mormonism
Now, to the subject of changes to the BOM. I don’t care how old the argument is, it’s accurate. I have gone through the documents and the changes were made. You’re the one that said it only had spelling errors and your implying that I’m lying. Besides that the quote does not have the dependant article you are speaking of, it says in History of the Church 4:461 “I told the brethren that the Book of Mormon was the most correct of any book on earth, and the keystone of our religion, and a man would get nearer to God by abiding by its precepts, than by any other book.” So, when Joseph Smith dictated the word “white” he missed the point, or since it is a word for word translation, God missed the point? Is that what you are saying. If you want to see some of the changes try the Tanner’s website http://utlm.org/booklist/titles/3913changesinthebookofmormon_ub003.htm. And yes we talk about these changes on our website. I have translated some things but I’m not claiming to be a prophet and getting a word for word translation by peering into a hat with an urim and thummim.
From: Brian
Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2006
To: Kirk-Life After
Subject: RE: Islam vs Mormonism
*****You clearly did not even read what I said, let alone what Cooper said.
I read and made comments on each of your points. Common respect to do so. I explained the word “white.” I explain that accuracy is NOT about punctuation or translation variations, but doctrine ONLY. Anybody who has even done minor translations from German to English, for example, as I have (minored in German, LDS mission in Munich, intern at Porsche AG in Suffenhausen Germany 1986) knows very well that two to three words can be used to explain the same thing. Have you ever studied Japanese. I have.
You must take the idea, and “translate” the idea because there are no words of the same family that are similar to it. Idea to idea, NOT word for word.
Very few words (especially old texts) exist that are one for one. In fact there is NO SUCH THING AS A ONE FOR ONE TRANSLATION IN ANY LANGUAGE. Have you ever studied law?? Each word has an history and story behind it and meaning, and several meanings to boot, many of which are reflections. It is silly and totally linguistically clued out to begin to claim a one for one translation is possible. Just read the many Bible translations…hello…
As I said my German bible ain’t anything like yours. Your God is not the God the Martin Luther seems to translate when I read it. Anybody who knows the first thing about translation knows this. You obviously only “know” one language, which means you don’t understand anything about English. You must know pain to understand pleasure, poverty to understand wealth, etc, etc. LIFE
****Do you know the meaning of the word “the” is, for example? What is the evolution of that very important little word “the”. Hmmm. Gee wiz bang.
You use it every day many times, but you don’t have a clue what it is, what is was or anything. If you don’t know what it is, EVERY SENTENCE YOU READ HAS NO MEANING. If I were God and I wanted to avoid the very claim you make about translation accuracy of a BOM scripture, there is only ONE LANGUAGE I would use to do it in…English. (God knows his languages…tower of Babel
guy) Why? If you know the first thing from whence I speak you would laugh so hard at your misunderstand. It is totally and utterly flat out ignorant of English, or language in general. Ah, but, no you will continue to tell a falsehood…hmmm very Unchristian of you, I might say, old chap…and quite embarrassing for you to say the least…for those in the “know,” of course…
—– Original Message —–
From: Ryan
Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2005 8:22 PM
To: info@lifeafter.org
Subject: quick question
hey. i am an ex-mormon. but you guys [omitted] me off more
then the mormons do. [Omitted], let people beilve (sic) what they
want. [Omitted], jesus freaks. if mormonism isnt true
(and its not) then jesus isnt true either. [Omitted], your
jesus
Ryan
—– Original Message —–
From: LIFE AFTER MINISTRIES
To: Ryan
Sent: Thursday, December 01, 2005 8:19 PM
Subject: RE: quick question
Ryan,
How unfortunate that Mormonism has left you so bitter towards trying to find
the truth and who Jesus really is. We will definitely pray for you. I’m not
sure why we anger you, it’s not like we are a pop up that just showed up
on your computer; you actually went to the site intentionally. As far as
letting people believe what they want; it’s one thing to sit around and
believe and quite another to lie about what Christianity is and who Jesus is
(the Mormon church, not the average member). All we are trying to do is set
people straight on the truth. We have a deep love for the Mormon’s and want
them to seek the truth about Jesus Christ.
Life After Ministries
—– Original Message —–
From: Dean
To: info@lifeafter.org
Sent: Thursday, November 17, 2005 11:11 PM
let me start by saying that I know I have sinned and cause great harm. my girlfriend and I were living together and we’re going to be married I am a fallen away evangelical she is a LDS we conceived a child we both are single parents and now she has left (we had stopped the sexual relationship) before this she wants us to give the child over for adoption to LDS social sevices I don’t want 1) my child raised by someone else 2) given over to the LDS. I’m repentent of my sins and scared that I will be facing the weight of the LDS church. Dean
—– Original Message —–
From: Roxanne
To: <info@lifeafter.org>
Sent: Sunday, November 20, 2005 9:47 PM
Subject: I’m Seeking Other Ex-Mormons to Network With
Hello,
I am an ex-Mormon who is actually seeking other ex-Mormons in my local area
to perhaps fellowship with in a prayer group for our Mormons family, friends
and neighbors. I live in [omitted] California. God has specifically put
ministering to Mormons on my heart, through a very dramatic deliverance from
the lying Mormon “holy ghost”. I have good Christian support but do not
personally know any other ex-Mormons who are now saved. Do you know of a
way to locate such a group? I do know that there is an Ex Mormon for Jesus
group that meets in [omitted], which is about 30 minutes away. I’m really
strapped for time because I am raising 3 young children, so I would ideally
like to find a group in [omitted], as I can usally only escape for about an
hour at a time. I would like to volunteer for you any way that I can. I’m
so gratefuly for online ministries such as yours. Please let me know how I
can help.
-Roxanne
From: Jay
To: info@lifeafter.org
Sent: Sunday, November 13, 2005 7:04 AM
Subject: Mormon Prophecy
Sirs,
This is a question about Joseph Smith and Brigham Young and prophecy.
I know that Joseph Smith and Brigham Young did not have a great record concerning fulfilled prophecy.
Did Joseph Smith or Brigham Young make any prophecies concerning what would be found on the Moon?
Thank you, Jay
—– Original Message —–
From: Life After Ministries
To: Jay
Sent: Sunday, November 13, 2005 5:19 PM
Subject: RE: Mormon Prophecy
Dear Dr. Nelson;
Thank you for writing us here at Life After Ministries!
Joseph Smith indeed prophesied that the moon was inhabited by men much like the “Quakers”. Brigham Young re-emphasized this prophecy while adding some of his own thoughts to it. Here are those prophecies:
“Inhabitants of the Moon are more of a uniform size than the inhabitants of the Earth, being about 6 feet in height. They dress very much like the Quaker Style and quite general in style, or the one fashion of dress. They live to be very old; coming generally near a thousand years. This is the description of them as given by Joseph Smith the Seer.” – The Oliver Huntington Journal, Book 14; also found in The Young Woman’s Journal, published by the Young Ladies’ MIA, 1892, 3:263-4.
Brigham Young’s prophecy:
“We are called ignorant; so we are: but what of it? Are not all ignorant? I rather think so. Who can tell us of the inhabitants of this little planet that shines of an evening, called the moon? When we view its face we may see what is termed “the man in the moon,” and what some philosophers declare are the shadows of mountains. But these sayings are very vague, and amount to nothing; and when you inquire about the inhabitants of that sphere you find that the most learned are as ignorant in regard to them as the most ignorant of their fellows. So it is with regard to the inhabitants of the sun. Do you think it is inhabited? I rather think it is. Do you think there is any life there? No question of it; it was not made in vain. It was made to give light to those who dwell upon it, and to other planets; and so will this earth when it is celestialized. Every planet in its first rude, organic state receives not the glory of God upon it, but is opaque; but when celestialized, every planet that God brings into existence is a body of light, but not till then. Christ is the light of this planet.” Journal of Discourses, 13: 271 – 272.
We hope this has helped you and answered your questions.
With Love in Christ;
Michelle
1 Cor. 1:18-9
Life After Ministries
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