Mormon Dilemma 67

24 September

Mormon Dilemma 67

Pre-existence and Creation of Man

Today’s dilemma is quite evident for the Christians.  For the Mormons this is just another example of why there is a dilemma.  One teacher proclaims one thing and another teacher or prophet proclaims just the opposite.



For those who don’t believe these examples are contradictory, with all sincerity I encourage you to use a dictionary to look up the meanings of basic English words like create, beginning, everlasting, eternal, organize, etc.  Just because Joseph Smith and his subsequent teachers say these words mean something else doesn’t make it true.

D&C 93:29; Man was also in the beginning with God. Intelligence, or the light of truth, was not created or made, neither indeed can be.

Job 38:4; Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.”  (See all of Job chapters 38-40)

Mormons will tell you the passage in Job definitely tells them God is saying that they were there with God.

Life Before, pg. 42-43; Applying this same concept to the eternal nature of man, Elder Penrose went on to sag that “the individual, the organized person may have had a beginning, but that spirit of which and by which they [were] organized never had a beginning….The primal particles never had a beginning. They have been organized in different shapes [as individual entities]; the organism [individual spirit] had a beginning, but the elements or atoms of which it is composed never had….The elementary parts of matter as well as of spirit, using ordinary terms, never had a beginning.”” – Brent Top

John 3:13; And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

The Mormon Church thinks it’s so wise and has all the answers, but in reality all they’re doing is tearing down God because they don’t have an answer to how He operates and they don’t like it.

Mormon Doctrine, pg. 590; Unless God the Father was a personal Being, he could not have begotten spirits in his image, and if there had been no self-existent spirit element, there would have been no substance from which those spirit bodies could have been organized.

Romans 9:11; “(For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;).

Again here they are trying to demean God and what He’s done.  They cannot accept the fact they can’t be like Him and pride is literally killing them.

Way to Perfection, pg. 29; That we had a pre-existence and dwelt in the presence of our Eternal Father and his Son Jesus Christ is revealed to us in the Scriptures. This doctrine is to be found in the Bible, but, in the present mutilated form in which this doctrine comes to us through that volume, it is difficult for those who have not been enlightened by other revelation to comprehend it.” – Joseph Fielding Smith

2 Timothy 3:1-5; This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.  2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, 3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good, 4 Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God; 5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.

Alert, alert, alert!!!  Take special notice here in what this man has said.  He has attacked the Bible and offered nothing to back up his claims of where and when this took place.  If the Bible is in a presently mutilated form and no one can comprehend it then WHY are they using it? 

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One Response to “Mormon Dilemma 67”

  1. shematwater September 28, 2011 at 8:22 pm #


    Of course, there is no contradiction in any of the quotes given (and I know the definitions very well). Existence is separated into segments for easy understanding, and that is all this is. When speaking of life and eternity existence is separated into three basic stages. The is pre-mortal life, mortal life, and post-mortal life. Since we are in Mortal life it has become the reference from which we discuss.

    D&C 93: 29 vs. Job 38: 4
    I actually see no contradiction. In Job God is asking where we were, and in the D&C he is telling us. As such, one is not a contradiction of the other, but rather a compliment to each other.
    Note: It is verse 7 in Job 38 that tells us that we were with God during these great events, not verse 4.

    Life Before, pg. 42-43 vs. John 3: 13
    Again, I see no contradiction. What is being discussed in the first quote is the eternal nature of mater, while John is discussing the divine nature of God. Neither one contradicts the other.

    Mormon Doctrine, pg. 590 vs. Romans 9: 11
    Here we have the first supposed contradiction, and on the service that is what it may appear to be. However, since Paul, in Romans chapter 9, is addressing the doctrine of Fore-ordination and is thus discussing only this existence, his words are not contradictory to the doctrine of a previous existence.
    It is like discussing the life of a college student and then someone claiming it as proof that there was no high school.

    Way to Perfection, pg. 29 vs. 2 Timothy 3: 1-5
    Again, no contradiction. Actually, none even seems to be claimed for this comparison. It seems more for the warnings sake and is just attached to the others. However, there is nothing in the warning of 2 Timothy that would pose any problem based on the first quote.

    Oh, and to answer the question at the end, we use the Bible because it is still the word of God, and is truly the centerpiece of his scripture. All other scriptures were written to support, supplement, and prove the Bible. Yes, it is a little confusing at times, due to poor transcriptions and translations, but the doctrine is actually still fairly pure, as long as one has the other scriptures and spirit to guide them.

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