Why I left the Mormon Church

Why I Left the Mormon Church

     This article is in response to something I watched on YouTube.  The little snippet reminded me of the horrible behavior problem I had as a member of the LDS Church.  As you already know, Mormon testimonies mimic each other as do the attacks against those who’ve left when they find truth.  Here’s the link for you to see what I mean!

http://youtube.com/watch?v=PCxdtTg7uyU&feature=related

 

Most if not all LDS people will tell anyone who will listen that people who leave the Church have done so for one of two reasons.  While their “two reasons” vary somewhat the point that needs to be noted is the character assassination that takes place against the person who has left.

Now personally I really don’t care much about having a “good reputation”.  My main concern in life is what God’s opinion is about me.  My    focus is to be sure that I’m on my way to Jerusalem with Jesus.  So my question to the Mormon is this:  are you going to Jerusalem?

Luke 18:31; Then He took the twelve aside and said to them, “Behold, we are going up to Jerusalem, and all things which are written through the prophets about the Son of Man will be accomplished”

     The other reasons for this article are to encourage the new ex-Mormon that has left and is being harassed by those still in the Church and also for those who don’t understand the underhanded methods of the LDS Church.  Yes, they really do participate in these types of things when people leave their fold.

I’ve been told the only reason/s I left was because I was either offended, I couldn’t live up to the high standards of the Church or because I had committed a grievous sexual sin.  I can assure the reader that none of those were the reasons I left the Mormon Church.  Listed below are the reasons; take note that none were more important than the other.

The false prophecy of polygamy.

The false prophecy concerning the race issue.

The false prophecy discrediting the Bible.

The false prophecy that Jesus’ atonement can’t cover all sins.

The false teaching children will be given to others in heaven if their parents aren’t married in the temple.

The false prophecy the entire body of Christ is wrong about God.

The false prophecy that Jesus is not God.

     The longer I’m a Christian the longer my list seems to become.  Just a few years ago I left because of the race issue and basic doctrinal reasons.  However, I have become extremely attached to my Lord after fifteen years and I could write a novel now listing all the reasons.

So that’s it!  Those are the reasons I left the Mormon Church.  And yes, I’d do it again today, tomorrow, next week, next month…all for the chance to hear Jesus call me His own.  Praise His Holy Blessed Name!

Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy, 25To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and for ever. Amen.”

With Love in Christ; Michelle  …

13 Responses to “Why I left the Mormon Church”

  1. shematwater April 14, 2011 at 8:52 pm #

    Interesting.

    Actually, none of these things are prophecies, but that doesn’t matter too much.

    Now, I could say a whole lot, but I won’t. It seems the only real purpose for this article is to vent some frustration, which is always a good idea. It clears the head and lets us think strait.

  2. krissmith777 April 15, 2011 at 2:53 am #

    Hey,

    I have posted two posts on the Book of Mormon so far..

    Would like to you know your opinion:

    1. http://onlinerationalview.wordpress.com/2011/04/08/the-nephites-lamanites-and-american-indians/

    2. http://onlinerationalview.wordpress.com/2011/04/09/nihm-evidence-for-nephis-nahom/

    • lifeafterministry April 16, 2011 at 5:52 am #

      Your investigations are great! Anyone reading this ought to check out Kris’ blog where you’ll glean some great insight to the Nahom story and how Mormon apologists futile attempts in making the Book of Mormon story fit.
      I hadn’t thought of looking into the geographical areas of where the Book of Mormon Ishmael had died. Very interesting and thanks for sharing!
      Michelle

  3. lifeafterministry April 15, 2011 at 4:58 pm #

    Well I think you’ve said a lot even though you may not think so.
    First of all I didn’t post the article to vent frustration – that’s what God is for. 😉
    Secondly, every single item I listed is indeed a prophecy and false at that.
    The false prophecy of polygamy. – D&C 132 is about Joseph proclaiming God told him it was okay to have more than one wife. Is the Church practicing that today? No. That makes it a false prophecy.

    The false prophecy concerning the race issue.
    Joseph Smith did indeed claim that blacks are from the curse of Cain. Read the book of Moses in the Pearl of Great Price. Subsequent prophets proclaimed they’d not hold the priesthood until AFTER all of Adam’s descendants were born. That became a false prophecy in June 1978 when the Church allowed non-whites to hold the priesthood.

    The false prophecy discrediting the Bible.
    Joseph Smith berated the Bible throughout his career of being a “prophet”. Telling people that “some old Jew mistranslated” it caused people to go away from God – Discourses of Joseph Smith, pg. 343. The BoM even says that “plain and precious things” are missing, thus the need for “another gospel” – 1 Nephi 13:28.

    The false prophecy that Jesus’ atonement can’t cover all sins.
    Murder – D&C 42:79
    Apostate of the Church – D&C 85:11
    Blasphemed the Holy Ghost – D&C 132:27

    The false teaching children will be given to others in heaven if their parents aren’t married in the temple.
    Doctrines of Salvation 2:56. When a prophet proclaims anything and says it is from the Lord it then by default is a prophecy.

    The false prophecy the entire body of Christ is wrong about God.
    1 Nephi 14:10 says the entire body of Christ is the whore of Babylon. This is diametrically opposed to what Jesus tells us in Matthew 16:18; thus it is a false prophecy.

    The false prophecy that Jesus is not God.
    Joseph Smith said the Triune Christian God is a “strange God” and summarily proclaimed Him a false god. This is not true. See Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, pg. 372.

    In stark contrast to what you’ve stated, these things do mean a lot! My soul and where I go after this life is more important to me than anything else I could imagine.

    Michelle

  4. shematwater April 16, 2011 at 11:00 pm #

    LAM

    I never once claimed the things you wrote were not taught by Joseph Smith. I said they were not prophecies, and they aren’t. For someone who claims to have such great knowledge you don’t seem to know what prophecy really is.

    Prophecy is the foretelling of events. Which event was foretold in any of these teachings?

    These things are not prophecy, but revelation, or truths that have been revealed. They do not foretell future events, but teach the truths of God.

    Please understand the difference before you continue.

    As to Plural Marriage, no, we don’t practice it. But that does not invalidate the teaching. It is doctrine and it is true. It is simply not practiced as the times we live in do not permit it.

    Blacks and the priesthood is another thing. I am not going to talk about this, but I will say that nothing about this teaching has ever been denied by any of the leaders. Also, it was never said that they wouldn’t hold the priesthood until after Adam’s descendants were born (at least in no quote I have read). What was said is that the gospel was to be taken to all the descendants of Adam’s other children before it would go to the seed of Cain. This does not necessitate every individual, but every nation or peoples. As such, the timing of 1978 seems to be right on the mark, as they were the last of all races to receive the blessings of the Priesthood.

    Concerning the Bible, this is simply a matter of faith, and to say it is false it ridiculous.

    Atonement does not cover all sin. Matthew 12: 31-32 “Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.
    And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, IT SHALL NOT BE FORGIVEN HIM, NEITHER IN THIS WORLD, NEITHER IN THE WORLD TO COME.”
    Also 1 John 3: 15
    “Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.”
    Joseph Smith simply confirmed what the Bible already teaches.

    Body of Christ
    Matthew 16: 18, if read correctly, is talking about the grave, or physical death. It does not contradict anything taught by Joseph Smith. (See the original Greek and its literal translation.)

    Jesus is not God
    Actually, Joseph Smith taught very powerfully that Jesus is God, just not the Father.
    I agree that he denied the Trinity, but that is not the same as denying Christ.

    What it all boils down to is belief. You can rail all you want about how wrong Joseph Smith was, but you have nothing to prove what you say except your belief in something else.

  5. discoveringgrace April 17, 2011 at 12:11 am #

    Shem,
    Just a couple of thoughts on your post. On polygamy, I hate to break it to you but you do practice a form of it. If a man’s wife passes he’s free and clear to take another unmarried Mormon gal to the temple to be sealed to her, insuring himself two wives in the Celestial Kingdom.

    Now that I think about it, when you’re married and sealed in the Mormon temple it’s for time and all eternity, so technically the Mormon man’s still married to his first wife, when he takes his second to the temple. 😉

    Lastly, on the prophesy issue. I believe both Smith and Young said that polygamy and blacks not holding the Mormon priesthood were things that were not to change. Now either they were leading the church members a stray or these were false prophesies, made by false prophets.

    • krissmith777 April 17, 2011 at 3:58 am #

      @discoveringgrace

      I believe both Smith and Young said that polygamy and blacks not holding the Mormon priesthood were things that were not to change. Now either they were leading the church members a stray or these were false prophesies, made by false prophets.

      I thought this was more of a command than a prediction. I guess I could be wrong. -shrugs-

    • lifeafterministry April 17, 2011 at 9:28 pm #

      Here are a few quotes from Mormon leaders and “scriptures” which are from Smith about the polygamy and race issues. You can find these in our Mormon Quotes and 1,000 Reasons to Leave the Church section.

      Polygamous Wives

      J. Golden Kimball: The Story of a Unique Personality, pg. 19; “Mother married Heber C. Kimball at Nauvoo, Illinois, and she knew not her number as one of his polygamous wives. I don’t know either. Mother didn’t have any idea, as father never told her. My mother was no concubine, but an acknowledged wife. She was a wife and mother. And not many lived who, to my mind, were quite so good.” How very sad.
      1 Kings 11:3; “And he had seven hundred wives, princesses, and three hundred concubines: and his wives turned away his heart.”

      The point here isn’t the number of wives or concubines there are. The point is that these men had more than one wife. Look at the result.

      Polygamy Abominable

      Jacob 2:24; “Behold, David and Solomon truly had many wives and concubines, which thing was abominable before me, saith the Lord.”
      Deuteronomy 17:17; “Neither shall he multiply wives to himself, that his heart turn not away: neither shall he greatly multiply to himself silver and gold.”

      The Book of Mormon claimed that polygamy was a sin so why did they call it salvation?

      Polygamy – Broken Promises, False Prophecies

      Edmunds-Tucker Act of 1890, Encyclopedia of Mormonism, pg. 52; “In 1890 after the U.S. Supreme Court upheld the seizure of Church property under the Edmunds-Tucker Act in The Late Corporation of the Mormon Church v. United States and the Idaho test oath in Davis v. Beason, it became clear that plural marriage was leading toward the economic and political destruction of the Church. Shortly after these decisions, a revelation was received by President Wilford Woodruff, who then withdrew the requirement for worthy males to take plural wives and announced the manifesto, formally stating his counsel to Latter-day Saints to abide by antibigamy laws (see D&C Official Declaration-1). The Manifesto ended the legal confrontation between the U.S. government and the Church.”
      Deuteronomy 13:1-2; “If there arise among you a prophet, or a dreamer of dreams, and giveth thee a sign or a wonder, 2 And the sign or the wonder come to pass, whereof he spake unto thee, saying, Let us go after other gods, which thou hast not known, and let us serve them.”

      If polygamy was an “everlasting covenant” then why is it no longer a commandment?
      If polygamy was truly from God then why isn’t still from God?

      Polygamy, Denial of

      Times & Seasons 4:143; “We are charged with advocating a plurality of wives, and common property. Now this is as false as the many other ridiculous charges which are brought against us. No sect have a greater reverence for the laws of matrimony, or the rights of private property, and we do what others do not, plactice [sic] what we preach.”
      1 Samuel 12:24-25; “Only fear the LORD, and serve him in truth with all your heart: for consider how great things he hath done for you. 25 But if ye shall still do wickedly, ye shall be consumed, both ye and your king.”

      By the time the above LDS quote was made in November of 1842 by Joseph Smith, he had seventeen wives ranging in ages from 16 to 53. When he was shot and killed in June 1844 he had a whopping 34 wives.
      http://www.wivesofjosephsmith.org/home.htm

      Polygamy Denied by Joseph Smith

      Discourses of Joseph Smith, pg. 270; “Do the Mormons believe in having more wives than one?” No, not at the same time. But they believe that if their companion dies, they have a right to marry again.”
      Zechariah 13:2; “And it shall come to pass in that day, saith the LORD of hosts, that I will cut off the names of the idols out of the land, and they shall no more be remembered: and also I will cause the prophets and the unclean spirit to pass out of the land.”

      At the time Smith made this announcement it was 1838. He was already practicing polygamy with three wives. Also see History of the Church 3:28-29.

      http://www.lifeafter.org/wives.asp

      Polygamy, Eternal

      Doctrines of Salvation 2:67; “We believe that the family will go on. I get a great deal of comfort out of the thought that if I am faithful and worthy of an exaltation, my father will be my father, and I will be subject to him as his son through all eternity; that I will recognize and know my mother and she will be my mother in all eternity; and my brothers and sisters will be my brothers and sisters for all eternity; and that my children and my wives will be mine in eternity. I don’t know how some other people feel, but that is a glorious thought to me. That helps to keep me sober.”
      John 10:7-11; “Then said Jesus unto them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep. 8 All that ever came before me are thieves and robbers: but the sheep did not hear them. 9 I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture. 10 The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly. 11 I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.”

      Who else would you want to impress or see in heaven other than the King Himself? What a joy we have set before us!
      It will be nice to see those we know here on earth, yes, but all that pales in comparison to this very God I worship.

      I was like one of those unsaved people in the Bible from a foreign tribe, not knowing the God of Abraham and worshipping a false god in the myriad of false gods. What an honor to finally know Him, pray to Him and bow my knee to Him, the Only Wise God and Savior, Christ Jesus.

      Polygamy is Godhood

      D&C 132:19-21; “And again, verily I say unto you, if a man marry a wife by my word, which is my law, and by the new and everlasting covenant, and it is sealed unto them by the Holy Spirit of promise, by him who is anointed, unto whom I have appointed this power and the keys of this priesthood; and it shall be said unto them—…Then shall they be gods, because they have no end; therefore shall they be from everlasting to everlasting, because they continue; then shall they be above all, because all things are subject unto them. Then shall they be gods, because they have all power, and the angels are subject unto them. Verily, verily, I say unto you, except ye abide my law ye cannot attain to this glory.”
      Lev. 18:18; “Neither shalt thou take a wife to her sister, to vex her, to uncover her nakedness, beside the other in her life time.” (Also see Is. 45:5)

      I remember watching a special on television about the wives in a polygamous marriage. One of them said it is the hardest thing to watch her husband with another…she also said it is difficult to not feel jealousy and I’m wondering if she’s ever read this verse in the Bible. God is trying to protect us with His law and we throw it right back in His face.

      Polygamy is Mandatory

      Journal of Discourses 11: 269; ” It is the word of the Lord, and I wish to say to you, and all the world, that if you desire with all your hearts to obtain the blessings which Abraham obtained, you will be polygamists at lest in your faith, or you will come short of enjoying the salvation and the glory which Abraham has obtained…The only men who become Gods, even the sons of God are those who enter into polygamy.” – Brigham Young, August 19, 1866, Salt Lake City
      1 Corinthians 6:9; “Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind.”

      Now what? If what Brigham said is true we’re all in deep trouble.

      Polygamy is Salvation

      D&C 131:1-4; “In the celestial glory there are three heavens or degrees; And in order to obtain the highest, a man must enter into this order of the priesthood [meaning the new and everlasting covenant of marriage]; And if he does not, he cannot obtain it. He may enter into the other, but that is the end of his kingdom; he cannot have an increase.”
      Deuteronomy 28:58, 65-66; “If thou wilt not observe to do all the words of this law that are written in this book, that thou mayest fear this glorious and fearful name, THE LORD THY GOD; 65 And among these nations shalt thou find no ease, neither shall the sole of thy foot have rest: but the LORD shall give thee there a trembling heart, and failing of eyes, and sorrow of mind: 66 And thy life shall hang in doubt before thee; and thou shalt fear day and night, and shalt have none assurance of thy life.”

      Interestingly enough, the Church has NOT removed this passage from their “scripture” yet….if it’s true then they’re sinning. If it’s not true Joseph Smith gave a false prophecy.

      Polygamy is Solution to Adultery

      The Seer, pgs. 123-124; “To be moral is to be innocent of crime: to be immoral I to be guilty of crime. It can neither be shown from reason nor the word of God that plurality is criminal, and hence it cannot be immoral, and therefore the morals of society are not in the least endangered by its practice. On the contrary, plurality is a great and powerful antidote against immorality…Because of the vast numbers of un-virtuous females with which the nations are curded, many young men neglect marriage, and seek to gratify their sexual propensities by unlawful and sinful connections. If no public female prostitutes existed, or if they rarely could be found, the natural consequences would be, that young men, instead of abandoning themselves to prostitution, would seek to unite themselves in honorable marriages with partners of their choice…if the cause be destroyed the effect ceases.” – Orson Pratt
      1 Cor. 6:16-20; “What? know ye not that he which is joined to an harlot is one body? for two, saith he, shall be one flesh. 17 But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit. 18 Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that committeth fornication sinneth against his own body. 19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own? 20 For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God’s.”

      “Plurality” meant polygamy obviously. And why is Pratt blaming all the single women in the world for his unholy thoughts and behavior?

      Polygamy, No

      D&C 42:22; “Thou shalt love thy wife with all thy heart, and shalt cleave unto her and none else.”
      Lev. 18:18; “Neither shalt thou take a wife to her sister, to vex her, to uncover her nakedness, beside the other in her life time.”

      I’m confused.

      Polygamy, Rome 1st to Outlaw

      Journal of Discourses 12:262-263; “Just ask yourselves, historians, when was monogamy introduced on to the face of the earth? When those buccaneers, who settled on the peninsula where Rome now stands, could not steal women enough to have two or three apiece, they passed a law that a man should have but one woman. And this started monogamy and the downfall of the plurality system. In the days of Jesus, Rome, having dominion over Jerusalem, they carried out the doctrine more or less. This was the rise, start and foundation of the doctrine of monogamy; and never till then was there a law passed, that we have any knowledge of, that a man should have but one wife.” – Brigham Young, Salt Lake City, August 9, 1868
      Genesis 6:18; “But with thee will I establish my covenant; and thou shalt come into the ark, thou, and thy sons, and thy wife…” – Brigham Young, Salt Lake City, August 9, 1868
      Job 1:1, 2:9; “There was a man in the land of Uz, whose name was Job; and that man was perfect and upright, and one that feared God, and eschewed evil. Then said his wife unto him…”
      Deuteronomy 17:17; “Neither shall he multiply wives to himself, that his heart turn not away: neither shall he greatly multiply to himself silver and gold.”

      Righteous men, one wife each…

      Polygamy, Speaking Against it is of the Devil

      Journal of Discourses 5:204; “Some quietly listen to those who speak against the Lord’s servants, against his anointed, against the plurality of wives, and against almost every principle that God has revealed. Such persons have half-a-dozen devils with them all the time. You might as well deny “Mormonism,” and turn away from it, as to oppose the plurality of wives.” – Heber C. Kimball, October 12, 1856, Salt Lake City
      Matthew 19:8-9; “He saith unto them, Moses because of the hardness of your hearts suffered you to put away your wives: but from the beginning it was not so. 9 And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery.”

      Please Lord; allow them to see with their hearts. Open their eyes, confess their sins, and come to You.

      Polygamy, Those Who Oppose it Will go to Hell

      Journal of Discourses 17:225; “Now I want to prophecy a little. It is not very often that I prophecy, though I was commanded to do so, when I was a boy. I want to prophecy that all men and women who oppose the revelation which God has given in relation to polygamy will find themselves in darkness; the Spirit of God will withdraw from them from the very moment of their opposition to that principle, until they will finally go down to hell and be damned, if they do not repent.” – Orson Pratt, October 7, 1874, Salt Lake City
      1 Kings 11:6; “And Solomon did evil in the sight of the LORD, and went not fully after the LORD, as did David his father.”

      There are some people who’ve come face to face with one of Satan’s cohorts. I’ve had the unfortunate experience of that happening in my life and knew it immediately. I’m just as certain Mr. Pratt fits that description as well.

      BLACKS

      95 – Blacks & the Church

      Race Problems–As They Affect the Church, August 27, 1954, address at CES convention at Brigham Young University; “Think of the Negro, cursed as to the Priesthood. Are we prejudiced against him? Unjustly, sometimes we are accused of having such a prejudice. But what does the mercy of God have for him? This negro, who, in the pre-existence lived the type of life which justified the Lord in sending him to the earth in the lineage of Cain with a black skin, and possibly being born in darkest Africa if that Negro is willing when he hears the gospel to accept it, he may have many of the blessings of the gospel. In spite of all he did in the pre-existent life, the Lord is willing, if the Negro accepts the gospel with real, sincere faith, and is really converted, to give him the blessings of baptism and the gift of the Holy Ghost. If that Negro is faithful all his days, he can and will enter the celestial kingdom. He will go there as a servant, but he will get a celestial resurrection.” – Mark E. Petersen

      Genesis 1:26-27; “And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.”

      The Mormon prophet Thomas Monson referred to Mark Petersen as someone who “personified righteousness” and “a giant among men”. How could anyone who says the darker you are the more sinful the behavior, or that the black people will be servants in heaven? How is this godly or righteous?

      Imagine Mr. Petersen’s surprise when he died and saw that Jesus probably wasn’t white.

      Blacks are Slaves Mentally

      Journal of Discourses 5:217; “Elder Hyde inquired the situation of the negro. I replied, they came into the world slaves mentally and physically. Change their situation with the whites, and they would be like them. They have souls, and are subjects of salvation. Go into Cincinnati or any city, and find an educated negro, who rides in his carriage, and you will see a man who has risen by the powers of his own mind to his exalted state of respectability. The slaves in Washington are more refined than many in high places, and the black boys will take the shine of many of those they brush and wait on.” – Heber C. Kimball, Salt Lake City, September 6, 1856

      1 Cor. 12:13; “For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.”

      So the “negro” has no soul? Where does it say that in the Bible?

      Blacks and Whites are Saved

      2 Nephi 26:33; “…he denieth none that come unto him, black and white, bond and free, male and female; and he remembereth the heathen; and all are alike unto God, both Jew and Gentile.”

      Galatians 3:28; “There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.”

      This is an example of how the Mormon Church confuses its members. At the time this was written the Church didn’t like black people. Additionally, this passage of “scripture” supposedly took place around 545 BC. Jews and Gentiles were not alike unto God at this time.

      Blacks Not Born Innocent

      Way to Perfection, pg. 102; “In the spirit of sympathy, mercy and faith, we will also hope that blessings may eventually be given to our negro brethren, for they are our brethren-children of God-notwithstanding their black covering emblematical of eternal darkness.” – Apostle Joseph Fielding Smith

      James 2:1-4; “My brethren, have not the faith of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Lord of glory, with respect of persons. 2 For if there come unto your assembly a man with a gold ring, in goodly apparel, and there come in also a poor man in vile raiment; 3 And ye have respect to him that weareth the gay clothing, and say unto him, Sit thou here in a good place; and say to the poor, Stand thou there, or sit here under my footstool: 4 Are ye not then partial in yourselves, and are become judges of evil thoughts?”

      The LDS book used above was written in 1949 by then apostle Joseph Fielding Smith who later became the tenth president/prophet of the Church.

      Blacks are Satan’s Representatives after Flood

      Gospel Kingdom, pgs. 103; “…And then the devil put on a long face and said, I imagined I had got rid of these fellows; but they are going to have a chance yet that I did not think of. And after the flood we are told that the curse that had been pronounced upon Cain was continued through Ham’s wife, as he had married a wife of that seed. And why did it pass through the flood? Because it was necessary that the devil should have a representation upon the earth as well as God.” – John Taylor

      Genesis 6:10; “And Noah begat three sons, Shem, Ham, and Japheth.”

      1. Ham’s name means “burnt”.

      2. Cain lived circa 3979 BC. Ham lived circa 2440 BC.

      3. The Mormons teach that being black is a sin and therefore evil.

      4. The Bible clearly states the curse was upon Canaan because of Ham’s behavior, not because of his color (Gen. 9:18-29).

      5. The Bible never gives the name of Ham’s wife or her race.

      Gospel Kingdom is a collection of thoughts and writings of John Taylor, 3rd prophet of the LDS Church.

      God Cursed People with Dark Skin

      2 Nephi 5:21; “And he had caused the cursing to come upon them, yea, even a sore cursing, because of their iniquity. For behold, they had hardened their hearts against him, that they had become like unto a flint; wherefore, as they were white, and exceedingly fair and delightsome, that they might not be enticing unto my people the Lord God did cause a skin of blackness to come upon them.”

      Genesis 4:11, 15; “And now art thou cursed from the earth, which hath opened her mouth to receive thy brother’s blood from thy hand; 15 And the LORD said unto him, Therefore whosoever slayeth Cain, vengeance shall be taken on him sevenfold. And the LORD set a mark upon Cain, lest any finding him should kill him.”

      Another example that the Mormon god hates dark people.

      Blacks, Why They Were Accepted into Church

      Revelations of the Prophet Joseph Smith, pg. 353; “Under these conditions President Spencer W. Kimball began an exhaustive personal study of the scriptures as well as statements of Church leaders since Joseph Smith, and asked other General Authorities to share their personal feelings relative to the longstanding Church policy. Then he began to inquire of the Lord if the time was not right to extend the priesthood blessings to this restricted people. Recalling this period, President Kimball stated, “Day after day, and especially on Saturdays and Sundays when there were no organizations in the temple, I went there when I could be alone.” The result was a revelation on 1 June 1978.”

      Romans 12:2; “And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.”

      Truth: the Mormon Church was being pressured by many to change their racist ways. One example was the NCAA who was threatening to boycott the BYU football team.

      RACE ISSUES

      Race Issue, Blacks are Cursed

      Moses 7:8; “For behold, the Lord shall curse the land with much heat, and the barrenness thereof shall go forth forever; and there was a blackness came upon all the children of Canaan, that they were despised among all people.”
      Genesis 6:10; “And Noah begat three sons, Shem, Ham, and Japheth.”

      Those the Lord can and will save are those who the Mormon Church throws away.

      Racism in the Book of Mormon/Dark Skin because of Sin

      Alma 3:6; “And the skins of the Lamanites were dark, according to the mark which was set upon their fathers, which was a curse upon them because of their transgression and their rebellion against their brethren, who consisted of Nephi, Jacob, and Joseph, and Sam, who were just and holy men.”
      Colossians 3:10-11; “And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him: 11 Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all.”

      Growing up in the Church I can remember always thinking I was less of a person and Mormon because of my dark coloring. For years I felt God had to hate me for what I had supposedly done in the pre-existence.

      Racism in the Book of Mormon/Dark Skin because of Sin

      2 Nephi 5:21; “And he had caused the cursing to come upon them, yea, even a sore cursing, because of their iniquity. For behold, they had hardened their hearts against him, that they had become like unto a flint; wherefore, as they were white, and exceedingly fair and delightsome, that they might not be enticing unto my people the Lord God did cause a skin of blackness to come upon them.”
      Isaiah 38:18; “For the grave cannot praise thee, death can not celebrate thee: they that go down into the pit cannot hope for thy truth.”

      How can anyone believe that skin color determines worthiness or that you could be baptized for dead people?

      Racism in the Book of Mormon/White Skin because of Righteousness

      2 Nephi 30:6; “And then shall they rejoice; for they shall know that it is a blessing unto them from the hand of God; and their scales of darkness shall begin to fall from their eyes; and many generations shall not pass away among them, save they shall be a pure and a delightsome people.”
      Genesis 1:27; “So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.”

      The BoM verse above used to say “a white and delightsome people”. So when does pure mean white or vice versa?

      Racism in the Book of Mormon/White Skin because of Righteousness

      3 Nephi 2:14-15; “And it came to pass that those Lamanites who had united with the Nephites were numbered among the Nephites; 15 And their curse was taken from them, and their skin became white like unto the Nephites.”
      1 John 2:9; “He that saith he is in the light, and hateth his brother, is in darkness even until now.”

      It sounds like their god is a god of magic.

      Racism in the Church/Behavior Determines Race

      Race Problems as they Affect the Church, BYU speech on August 27, 1954, p.11; “With all this in mind, can we account in any other way for the birth of some of the children of God in darkest Africa, or in flood-ridden China, or among the starving hordes of India, while some of the rest of us are born here in the United States? We cannot escape the conclusion that because of performance in our pre-existence some of us are born as Chinese, some as Japanese, some as Indians, some as Negroes, some as Americans, some as Latter-day Saints. These are rewards and punishments, fully in harmony with His established policy in dealing with sinners and saints, rewarding all according to their deeds.” – Mark E. Petersen, former apostle
      Luke 10:17-19; “And the seventy returned again with joy, saying, Lord, even the devils are subject unto us through thy name.18 And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven.19 Behold, I give unto you power to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy: and nothing shall by any means hurt you.”

      http://www.mormonismi.net/mep1954 for the full text

      Think about verse 18 for a few moments. Think of the power God holds in His hands to do what He did in response to Satan’s disobedience. You have to wonder what He thinks of Smith’s teachings on the pre-existence and the black race.

      Did this guy not think that maybe black people or Chinese could be Americans?

      Racism in the Church/Blacks cannot Scrub off the Black Mark of Cain

      Millennial Star, No. 27, Vol. 14; “For instance, the descendants of Cain cannot cast off their SKIN OF BLACKNESS, at once, and immediately, although every soul of them should repent,…Cain and his posterity must wear the mark which God put upon them; and his white friends may WASH THE RACE OF CAIN WITH FULLER’S SOAP EVERY DAY, THEY CANNOT WASH AWAY GOD’S MARK;…” – Saturday, August 28, 1852
      John 8:44; “Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.”

      The words of Jesus says it all.

      Racism in the Church/Descendants of Ham have Black Hearts

      Times and Seasons, vol. 6 (January 15, 1845 – February: pg. 857; “History and common observation show that these predictions have been fulfilled to the letter. The descendants of Ham, besides a black skin which has ever been a curse that has followed an apostate of the holy priesthood, as well as a black heart, have been servants to both Shem and Japheth, and the abolitionists are trying to make void the curse of God, but it will require more power than man possesses to counteract the decrees of eternal wisdom.”
      Genesis 9:24-27; “And Noah awoke from his wine, and knew what his younger son had done unto him. 25 And he said, Cursed be Canaan; a servant of servants shall he be unto his brethren. 26 And he said, Blessed be the LORD God of Shem; and Canaan shall be his servant. 27 God shall enlarge Japheth, and he shall dwell in the tents of Shem; and Canaan shall be his servant.”

      I thought it was the descendants of Cain that had the curse? If anyone has a black heart it has to be those who teach these things.

      Racism in the Pearl of Great Price/Ham and the Curse

      Abraham 1:24-27; “When this woman discovered the land it was under water, who afterward settled her sons in it; and thus, from Ham, sprang that race which preserved the curse in the land. 25 Now the first government of Egypt was established by Pharaoh, the eldest son of Egyptus, the daughter of Ham, and it was after the manner of the government of Ham, which was patriarchal. 26 Pharaoh, being a righteous man, established his kingdom and judged his people wisely and justly all his days, seeking earnestly to imitate that order established by the fathers in the first generations, in the days of the first patriarchal reign, even in the reign of Adam, and also of Noah, his father, who blessed him with the blessings of the earth, and with the blessings of wisdom, but cursed him as pertaining to the Priesthood. 27 Now, Pharaoh being of that lineage by which he could not have the right of Priesthood, notwithstanding the Pharaohs would fain claim it from Noah, through Ham, therefore my father was led away by their idolatry.”
      Proverbs 3:5; “Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.”

      1. Pharoah was not righteous.
      2. Egyptus definition from Mormon Doctrine says there are 2 women name Egyptus. One is the descendant of Cain who was married to Ham and the other is their daughter. The Mormons believe the first Pharaoh was the grandson of the daughter Egyptus.
      3. SOOO – if the mom Egyptus was already black and Ham married outside the approved “race”.
      4. The Bible says that Ham was blessed.

      Racism in the Pearl of Great Price/Seed of Cain is Black

      Moses 7:22; “And Enoch also beheld the residue of the people which were the sons of Adam; and they were a mixture of all the seed of Adam save it was the seed of Cain, for the seed of Cain were black, and had not place among them.”
      Joel 2:1; “Blow ye the trumpet in Zion, and sound an alarm in my holy mountain: let all the inhabitants of the land tremble: for the day of the LORD cometh, for it is nigh at hand.”

      If the people who were black had no place among the righteous then why was Ham who was blessed marrying into that clan?

  6. lifeafterministry April 17, 2011 at 1:45 am #

    What it all boils down to…hmmm…the topic of this particular article is what it all boils down to.

    Interpreting scripture properly is what it all boils down to. I’m only going to address a couple of items here because of how long this could turn into – I’m actually going to write another article based upon what this conversation has turned into…

    Why did I leave the Church?
    Again, I left because of the false prophecies given by the Mormon prophets, Joseph Smith and otherwise.
    Prophecy, as defined by the Holman Bible Dictionary (which by the way the LDS Church endorses):

    “They were primarily spokespersons who called His people to obedience by appealing to Israel’s past and future…Prophets intended to evoke faith by proclamation, not merely to predict the future. Thus reading the prophets with a lustful curiosity is inappropriate. Our primary desire must be to know God, not just the facts of the future.”

    When a prophet or prophetess says; “…thus saith the Lord…” they are indeed prophetically stating the words from their mouth are the intentions of God.

    The body of Christ.

    Matthew 16:18 says; “And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. ”

    You said; “Matthew 16: 18, if read correctly, is talking about the grave, or physical death. It does not contradict anything taught by Joseph Smith. (See the original Greek and its literal translation.)”

    I’ve read this passage in the original Greek and I still don’t see where you may have come up with your interpretation. How does Jesus telling Peter the gates of hell won’t prevail against His church translate into a physical death or grave???

    I still say 1 Nephi 14:10 is a classic example of how Joseph Smith hated the body of Christ (the Christian church) and didn’t want to accept what God’s plans were so he went about trying to trick people into his new ideas.

    Michelle

  7. shematwater April 18, 2011 at 3:03 am #

    Discoveringgrace

    I know all about this, and I believe in it completely. However, this is not he same as actively practicing, as that would require it to be done in this life, not the next. My comment was to agree that men do not have more than one wife who are alive on the earth at one time.

    As to the race issue, please give references.

    LAM

    1 Kings 11: 1-3 (notice the strange, or pagan wives)
    The point is not that he had many wives, but that he married many women not of the true faith, which turned his heart away.

    Jacob 2: 30
    “For if I will, saith the Lord of Hosts, raise up seed unto me, I will command my people; otherwise they shall hearken unto these things.”
    Notice that God reserves the right to command the practice, but without that direct command men are not to engage. The Book of Mormon does not condemn Plural Marriage, only the unauthorized practice of it.

    Dueteronomy 17: 16-17
    These verses are speaking of taxes. He shall take take horses for taxes, nor shall he take wives as taxes; while he can take money as taxes he is not to take more than is needed. This is clearly seen in the term “multiply” and the fact that this is a caution to kings.

    As I said, plural marriage has never been denied, and it was never a general commandment. Thus there is nothing false in anything that has happened.
    As to Joseph Smith denying plural marriage, I don’t think he did. What he denied was the advocacy of plural marriage, or the encouraging of people to engage in the practice, which he did not do. He was very strict on the practice of plural marriage and who could practice it, and thus he rightly could claim that he, nor the church as a whole, advocated plural marriage.

    D&C 132: 19-21
    This only states that marriage is godhood, not plural marriage. A man need only one wife to be exalted as a god in heaven.

    Leviticus 18: 18
    This is speaking of causing two sisters to sleep with you at the same time, or force one to watch while you engage with the other. It does not refer to plural wives in general. Such a reference would be in direct contradiction to the many laws permitting and governing plural marriage as given by Moses.

    Journal of Discourses 11: 269
    This says only that we must except the practice as good and from God, not that we must engage in it.

    D&C 131:1-4
    Again, not a reference to plural marriage, but to all marriage. All this is saying is that if a man does not have at least one wife he cannot enter the highest glory.

    D&C 42: 22
    So, if I have two wives, or twenty, and I love them all and do not go after any other (cleave to them) I am still doing just fine. This is all explained in D&C 132: 58-66 if you care to look it up. One cannot commit adultery with someone to whom they are married.

    Journal of Discourses 12:262-263
    This is very true.
    As to Noah, Job and others, no one ever said that you could not be righteous and have only one wife. This is not the doctrine and never has been. These men were all great men, and they will be exalted in the Kingdom of God.

    The Seer, pgs. 123-124 adn 1 Corinthians 6: 16-20
    What is your point? Paul says to avoid Fornication, and Brother Pratt says the same thing. He simply gives a way in which such avoidance is made easier.
    Also, he is not blaming “all the single women in the world” for this fornication, but prostitutes. Please stick with the words of the person without trying to twist them. And he is right. If women refused to sleep with men before marriage there would be a whole lot less pre-marrital sex.

    Journal of Discourses 5:204 and Matthew 19: 8-9
    Again, where is the connection? Brother Kimball has simply stated that to deny any of the doctrines of the church is to deny the church. It is exactly the same principle used by Christians who claim denying the Trinity is denying Christianity. Yes he puts things in stronger words, but it is the same idea.
    As the adultery thing mentioned in Matthew, this speaks about divorce not marriage, and thus does not really apply.

    Journal of Discourses 17:225 and 1 Kings 11: 8
    Again, you give a Biblical reference that seems to confimr what the LDS leaders said rather than contradict it.
    Also, the quote from Orson Pratt speaks of a process. He speaks of the rejection of the doctrine as the first step on a journey that will eventually culminate in one loosing their salvation. He does not say that rejecting it in and of itself causing damnation.

    In summary, you show very little understanding regarding the LDS scripture and doctrine. You can object to it all you want, but you don’t really know what you are objecting to, except that a man can have more than one wife (so Abraham must be a big objection to you). You misrepresent the words of LDS leaders. You give false understanding of LDS scripture. Then you claim to have an understanding as to why this is a false doctrine.

    I am not going to comment on the rest of what you wrote (though I will read it) as I can only assume it will be of equal quality. If it isn’t I will give a brief reply later.

    Thank you.

  8. shematwater April 18, 2011 at 3:24 am #

    After reading the comments on the race issue I have concluded that there is even less quality in them and they bare a remarkable hint of the authors own prejudice while they lack any real analysis or understanding.

    An Example: In the second section under this heading, after quoting Heber C. Kimball and the Bible, the author states
    “So the “negro” has no soul? Where does it say that in the Bible?”
    This would imply that Brother Kimball stated that they didn’t, because that is the only reason for the Author to make such a claim. However, we read in the quote provided that “They have souls, and are subjects of salvation.”
    It seems that the author of this post did not really read the very quote they are giving as evidence and are thus twisting the meaning that was intended.
    I would also point out that the entire quotes says that, while the black race were slaves intillectually, they had the same capacity for knowledge and understanding as anyone else, and given the opportunity could, and had on occasion, surpassed the intelligence and understand of the learned white men.

    The rest of the quotes follow this same basic trend: Quote an LDS leader or scripture, give some quote from the Bible (and it doesn’t seem to matter if it relates to the LDS quotes in any way) and then make some statement that is either strait opinion (or belief) or is a twisting of the actual meaning and thus not an accurate representation of the quotes provided, or the people they represent.

    (And on a closing note: Pharoah was Ham’s grandson, the son of his daughter Egyptus. Another glaring misreading of text. Also, I would love to know how you can prove that the first Pharoah was not a righteous man?)

    • lifeafterministry April 24, 2011 at 5:22 am #

      Shem –

      A quick answer to a couple of issues you raised. A simple Google search tells us the history and family of the first pharoah, who he worshipped, the names of his 3 wives and anything else you can want/need to know about him.
      http://www.angelfire.com/ego/et_deo/egyptianpharaohs.wps.htm
      http://www.ancientegyptonline.co.uk/RamessesI.html
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Menes

      As you’ll see the first pharoah was anything but righteous, unless of course you consider worshipping the sun god Horus-Re righteous behavior.

      As per the quotes I posted – if you choose to ignore them that’s your choice. If however, you choose to be intellectually honest w/ yourself and God He is more than willing and able to hear from you.

      Making any comment like the one Kimball did about another race is bigoted. To even entertain the idea someone is less than you are in any capacity simply based upon race is unbelievable – “slaves intellectually” – really?

      I recall being as defensive and angry as you when I was a Mormon…it was a lonely life.

      On this Easter eve I pray you will come to know the freedom you can have in the resurrected Lord.
      Michelle

  9. shematwater April 25, 2011 at 4:07 pm #

    MICHELLE

    You still do not understand what Brother Kimball was saying. You try to make his comment to mean that the black people as a race were inferior to whites, and that was not his meaning.
    What he meant was that the White men, through slavery and other institutions, had subjected the black man both physically and mentally (which was very true) but that there was no inherent inferiority in the race.
    His comment was not bigoted, but was a great defense of the race as being equal to all other races.

    Now, I have read all your quotes, and you use the same basic tactics in regards to each. You misinterpret and misrepresent each to further your own goals. You have basically admitted this in a comment on your more recent article “Women Need Their Husbands to be saved?”

    I am not angry, though I am a little defensive. However, more than anything I am annoyed that you claim to be some great spiritual person who believes and follows Christ when you knowingly post false information about others. I am also broken in my heart that you choose to do such.

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