Thought of the day about Mormonism

22 May

PRE-EXISTENCE DOCTRINE


In John 3:1-15 we read Jesus saying: “That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.”  LDS doctrine of the pre-existence creates a number of dilemmas in light of this teaching:

1. After reading John 3:6, we ask, “How were we born spiritually in the pre-existence if God is a man of flesh and bones?”
2. Nicodemus asks if we could be born a second time. Shouldn’t he have said a third time if he obviously already knew we were born 1) In the pre-existence, 2) In the flesh, and now 3) In the Spirit through revival?
3. Where in the Bible does it say we would be born in the pre-existence?
4. What did Jesus mean in John 3:13 when He said that no one but Him has descended from heaven?  How did we get to earth if we didn’t descend from heaven too?
5. What did Paul mean in 1 Cor. 15:42-47 by saying that our bodies are sown in dishonor?  Does this mean that God who begat us in the pre-existence did this in dishonor?
6. When did we see the kingdom of God the first time?  John 3:3 says that unless we’re born again we cannot see it.
John’s gospel illustrates the many inconsistencies within Mormon doctrine and if you are intellectually honest Mormon, you will agree it leaves the reader with more questions than answers.

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One Response to “Thought of the day about Mormonism”

  1. shematwater May 23, 2011 at 6:12 am #

    I am a very intellectual mormon and I can say very honestly that when a person actually understands the doctrine of the church there is no dilema.

    The first thing to realize is that Christ is speaking of this life; our mortal existance. He is speaking in metaphorical terms to illustrate a particular doctrine. As such, to try and use the metaphor as proof against another doctrine is to misuse the words of Christ.
    Having this understanding let us look at your questions.

    1. This actually has no bearing on the passage in John 3. In John Christ is using the term born as a metaphor or symbol for ordinances. Thus we are born of water (baptism) and of the spirit (confermation). It has nothing to do with being born as a spirit in the pre-existance, but is teaching the doctrine of these two ordinances.

    2. Again, we are talking about this life, without reference to our pre-existance. Christ told Nicodemus that unless a person is born again in this life he cannot see the kingdom of God. Thus Nicodemus’s question was a perfectly logical one, given his current understanding.

    3. This has no actual bearing on John 3, as John 3 does not address the truth of the pre-existance.
    Also, the Bible does say we would be born in the pre-existance. This is an impossibility as it puts a future event in the context of the past. It is correctly said that the Bible teaches that we were born in the Pre-existance.
    And the Bible does teach this. Eccl. 12: 7 “Then the dust shall return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.”
    How can the spirit return to God if it was never there?

    4. Christ is the only one who had the power to resurrect himself. This is what is meant by ascending into heaven. Why was he the only one with this power? Because he was the only one to partake of the fullness of the Father while in heaven before he was born. He was God, and thus he descended from his glory, which glory is heaven. This is what is meant by his descending from heaven.

    5. Funny that you should bring in Paul’s writing for a discussion on John’s. I wonder why this is.
    However, to answer the question, Paul is also speaking of this life, not of the Pre-existance. Our bodies in this life were greated in a fall world and are fallen bodies. Thus they were sown in dishonor. In the resurrection we will be restored to a glorified world and to immortal bodies. Thus we will be raised in glory.

    6. Again, Jesus is speaking to us in this life. Yes we saw the kingdom of God in the pre-existance, but we will never see it after this life if we are not born again. This is what Christ is saying.

    So, using our intellect we see there is no delima in anything you have shown, when you understand it properly.

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