Mormon Dilemmas 19

24 June

Baptism for Dead not Necessary

2 Nephi 9:38; “And, in fine, wo unto all those who die in their sins; for they shall return to God, and behold his face, and remain in their sins.

Isaiah 64:6; But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.

Every Mormon should question their faith based upon this verse from the Book of Mormon.   If those who die in their sins remain in their sins then what’s the deal with baptisms for the dead? 

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6 Responses to “Mormon Dilemmas 19”

  1. shematwater June 24, 2011 at 6:00 pm #

    Because to die in one’s sins requires one to know that they are sins. A person who dies in ignorance, never having the chance to hear the word and repent, has not died in their sins, but has died in ignorance.

    Nephi is speaking of those who hear the word and are given the chance to repent, but choose not to do so. These people know they have sinned, and thus have died in their sins, and for this reason they remain in their sins.

  2. lifeafterministry June 24, 2011 at 6:18 pm #

    Again it’s just another excuse to explain away the inconsistencies in Mormon teachings and the evolving religious ideas of Joseph Smith.

  3. shematwater June 25, 2011 at 9:31 pm #

    It is nothing of the kind. It is simply the plain truth of the doctrine. It stands to reason that if one cannot be saved in ignorance (as Joseph Smith taught) than one cannot be condemned in ignorance.

    Now, I will gladly admit that Joseph Smith did not have all the answers from the first, and that he was taught, as Isaiah says, Line upon line and precept upon precept. But the words of the Lord as delivered through him (whether in the Book of Mormon or any other revelation) are not contradictory or inconsistent. They just need to be understood.

  4. jon1 July 13, 2012 at 10:38 pm #

    I concur with what shematwater said above. However, Did you read all of 2nd Nephi chapter 9? If you go back a few verses to verse 12 it reads: “And this death of which I have spoken, which is the spiritual death…”. He never changes to talking about the carnal death. The scriptures are often talking about spiritual matters. The same with this scripture that you attempt to use to make someone question their faith. If someone continues to deny the Gospel of Jesus Christ, they will then suffer a spiritual death and account for their sins. It is plain and simple. Try reading the scriptures with the spirit of discernment and you will be surprised how much more you can understand. By the way, start with Romans 14 and tell me what you think.

    • CamdenC July 14, 2012 at 1:30 pm #

      jon1 – I assume you are referring to the “don’t judge other people” part of Romans 14 and not in relation to what people eat or drink…

      True, we are not to judge others, “lest we be judged”, but there is no judgement on the peoples caught up in the LDS religion. We are simply taking the scriptures (3 in 1) and the subsequent writings of the prophets, apostles, and general authorities of the Mormon church.

      Praise be to God for the discernment of the Holy Spirit!!! I was born and raised in the LDS church, from birth to 26 years old. I was never ever allowed to attend any other church growing up (and was fearful of doing so even after I turned 18) I was never ever allowed to read anything pertaining to God or religion that wasn’t from the Desseret publishing house or that wasn’t “approved” by the LDS church. I was challenged on some of the strange doctrines of the church when I was 26 years old and invited to a Christian church service. Thankfully (and I believe this how the Lord works) the sermon that beautiful Sunday morning was on Ephesians 2:8-9… I had never heard, memorized, or studied that verse in 26 years of sacrament meetings, seminary, priesthood, etc.

      Jon, it was like a weight had been lifted off my shoulders and it truly felt like the Holy Spirit reached into my chest and gave my heart a little “squeeze” as if to break up the hardness of my heart. It prompted me to search deeper, this thing called “Biblical Christianity”. I got to hear and study other verses that were not mentioned to me growing up like; 1 Cor. 1:18 and Galatians 1:8 (just to name a couple). What I also found, was attitudes and beliefs that I was not privy to while a member of the LDS church… like;

      “But under certain circumstances there are some serious sins for which the cleansing of Christ does not operate, and the law of God is that men must then have their own blood shed to atone for their sins… for the blood of Christ alone under certain circumstances will not avail”. (Mormon Doctrine, Bruce R. McConkie – Pages 92-93)

      “To create is to organize. It is an utterly false and uninspired notion to believe that the world or any other thing was created out of nothing… (Mormon Doctrine, Bruce R. McConkie – Page 169).

      “Implicit in the Christian verity that all men are the spirit children of an Eternal Father is the usually unspoken truth that they are also the offspring of an Eternal Mother… that man is the “offspring of celestial parentage”, and that “all men and women are in the similitude of the universal Father and Mother, and are literally the sons and daughters of Deity”. (Man: His Origin and Destiny – Pages 348-355, as quoted from Mormon Doctrine – Page 516)

      “The only men who become Gods, even the Sons of God, are those who enter into polygamy…”
      (Journal of Discourses, Brigham Young – 11:269)

      “Adam was made from the dust of an earth, but not the dust of this earth”.
      (Journal of Discourses, Brigham Young – 3:319)

      There are many more, but due to space, I will stop there… You see, no church, organization, group, temple ordinance, creed, membership, denomination, prophet, etc. can ever save you. We put our trust in Jesus, and Him alone. His finished work on the cross is what gives us the oppurtunity to have everlasting life, if we just surrender ourselves to His will, deny ourselves, take up our cross, and follow Him.

      Instead of asking the Lord if the B of M is true or if J.S. was a true prophet of God, try asking Him sincerely if He is really not “the same yesterday, today, and forever”. Did He really design and establish marriage to be between one man and one woman, then switch that up and tell J.S. he could take “10 virgins” as subsequent wives and be justified? (of course he took girls that were virgins, but also wives of other men that were not virgins). Did He truly change His mind about Polygamy, and being an Almighty God, bend and break to the “laws of the land” when He established an “everlasting covenant”? Did His curse upon the spirit children that didn’t fight valiantly during the “war in Heaven” get trumped by the social and civil rights movement, culminatint in Spencer Kimball’s declaration that Blacks could hold the priesthood? Even though B. Young stated that “the day the negro is allowed to hold the priesthood, the church would be destroyed.

      We are not judging the Mormon people, we are defending back against the “shot across our bow” when the church states that “our doctrines and creeds are from the pit of hell and that we are the whore of Babylon. We are all corrupt and we draw near with our lips, but our hearts are from Him.
      Christianity is all about a loving relationship with Jesus and about loving our neighbors. If we saw our neighbors house on fire, do we just get out the video camera and watch in amazement? NO, we run to house and make sure that everyone is saved from the fire.

  5. lifeafterministry July 14, 2012 at 3:11 am #

    I’ve read the Book of Mormon more times than I can count. The BoM is full of inconsistencies and slight of hand. This is why you shouldn’t deter from the Bible and not believe in other gospels.
    I tried reading those scriptures for 30 years and the more I read the more I was convinced (still am) they do not line up with the Bible and in fact contradict what God says in His word.
    Either the BoM is true and the Bible is false or the Bible is true and the BoM is false.
    I’ve never bought into the idea the Bible is “true as far as it is translated correctly”.
    Tell me Jon which verses in the Bible are translated incorrectly? Do you believe the hordes of passages in the BoM that are plagiarized from the book of Isaiah? Which part of Isaiah is not translated correctly if they’re in the Book of Mormon?
    I mean no disrespect mind you, just curious.
    Michelle

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