16 Points of a True Church

Sixteen Points of a True Church

 This article is actually an e-mail I received from a group of Mormons and my response to them.  My response is in blue.  I’ve prayed for this group of Mormons since the day I received this note a few years ago and haven’t received a response from them since.  This will actually serve as a good example of how the Mormon mind really works.  I didn’t correct any of their grammar or spelling, but when they used scripture references I did add the text of the scripture to make it easier for the reader to follow along.  So here we go!

This letter to you all may not be organized in a very well-put-together fashion, put I would like you to read this, and if ANY of you can prove to me that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is a false religion, I, and about 10-15 others have decided that we will leave the LDS Church. I would just like to say, it is true, and it WILL NEVER be false.

 It sounds like you’ve already made up your mind about the Church so I pray you’ll be objective enough to research the findings I present here.

 To all people who think that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, is a cult, or is not Christian. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (LDS) or more commonly known as the “Mormon church” is thought of as a cult and not Christian. That is not true. It is not a cult, and it is Christian.

Do you believe Jesus is God incarnate who came to this earth to die and pay the penalty for your sins on the cross?  This is part of what defines a Christian.  Or do you believe he is the spirit brother of Lucifer and a created being who volunteered to be the savior while in a meeting of the council of gods?  Below are three examples from each side.

 John 1:1, 14;In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.  And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

John 15:13; Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.

Colossians 2:13-14; And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses; 14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross.

Ephesians 2:16; And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby.

Mormon Doctrine of Deity, pg. 264; When the time came that his first-born, the Savior, should come into the world and take a tabernacle, the Father came himself and favored that spirit with a tabernacle instead of letting any other man do it. The Savior was begotten by the Father of his spirit, by the same Being who is the Father of our spirits, and that is all the organic difference between Jesus Christ and you and me.

D&C 19:18-19; Which suffering caused myself, even God, the greatest of all, to tremble because of pain, and to bleed at every pore, and to suffer both body and spirit—and would that I might not drink the bitter cup, and shrink—19 Nevertheless, glory be to the Father, and I partook and finished my preparations unto the children of men.

Jesus the Christ, pg. 8; “Thus it is shown that prior to the placing of man upon the earth, how long before we do not know, Christ and Satan, together with the hosts of the spirit-children of God, existed as intelligent individuals, possessing power and opportunity to choose the course they would pursue and the leaders whom they would follow and obey.” – Apostle James Talmage

Here are some factors that people say are characteristic of a cult; which many claim the Church of Jesus Christ to be. None of which apply to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

Members swear total allegiance to an all-powerful leader who they believe to be the Messiah.

Members don’t necessarily have to believe the leader is the Messiah.  They will however believe the words of their leader in regards to who he/she says the Messiah might be. 

 In the publication Ward Teaching “Improvement Era”, 1945, Vol. Xlviii, 1945, No.6, pg. 354; it says;

When our leaders speak, the thinking has been done. When they propose a plan—it is God’s plan. When they point the way, there is no other which is safe. When they give direction, it should mark the end of controversy. God works in no other way. To think otherwise, without immediate repentance, may cost one his faith, may destroy his testimony, and leave him a stranger to the kingdom of God.” – George Albert Smith, Eighth President/Prophet of the LDS Church

 This should concern every single member of the Church.  And if you believe I’ve pulled this out of context from some obscure place here is a list of the other times leaders have reiterated this thought:

Doctrines of Salvation 1:243;SAINTS SAFE IN FOLLOWING CHURCH AUTHORITIES. No man ever went astray by following the counsel of the authorities of the Church. No man who ever followed the teachings or took advice or counsel from one who stands as the representative of the Lord ever went astray; but men who refused to accept counsel have gone astray and into forbidden paths, and in some instances have even denied the faith.

 Apostle Bruce R. McConkie, Conference Report, October 1984, p. 104;No true Latter-day Saint will ever take a stand that is in opposition to what the Lord has revealed to those who direct the affairs of his earthly kingdom. No Latter-day Saint who is true and faithful in all things will ever pursue a course, or espouse a cause, or publish an article or book that weakens or destroys faith.

Speech at BYU “Accepting Divine Counsel”, Roy W. Doxey, July 30, 1974; But I had thought I might give you just a little different turn to that great sermon on the unity in the Church of Christ. I thought I might point out that our gospel comes in one package. We may not choose a particular thing that we like and ignore everything else, nor submerge nor subdue it. . . . We may not, I repeat, say to ourselves, nor to one another, that this is the important thing or that is the important thing, the others being nonessential or unessential. We have no right to draw distinctions and differences among the commandments of God.

What if truth contradicts what Church leaders tell you?  What will you personally do?  Will you follow Jesus whom you say that you love, or will the words of the current prophet outweigh the words of God Himself?

 2.  Rational thought is discouraged or forbidden.

 Yes, this is usually the case. See LDS examples I’ve listed above in #1.  In addition, there are these comments from other leaders of the Church:

Messenger and Advocate, Vol. 1 (October 1834-September 1835): pg. 9;That principle which actuates the children of men to revile, ridicule, calumniate and destroy the peace of one another, because they take the liberty to think for themselves in matters of religion, is certainly from beneath, and not from above…

“The Mantle is Far, Far Greater Than the Intellect”, 1981, BYU Studies, Vol. 21, No. 3, pp. 259-271;Church history can be so interesting and so inspiring as to be a very powerful tool indeed for building faith. If not properly written or properly taught, it may be a faith destroyer.”
“There is a temptation for the writer or the teacher of Church history to want to tell everything, whether it is worthy or faith promoting or not.”


Some things that are true are not very useful.
“That historian or scholar who delights in pointing out the weaknesses and frailties of present or past leaders destroys faith. A destroyer of faith — particularly one within the Church, and more particularly one who is employed specifically to build faith — places himself in great spiritual jeopardy. He is serving the wrong master, and unless he repents, he will not be among the faithful in the eternities. … Do not spread disease germs!” – Boyd K. Packer

 

3. The cult’s recruitment techniques are often deceptive.

This is always the case.  In response to this tell me, when was the last time the missionaries told a prospective member that the church believes they can become gods, or the everlasting covenant is polygamy (D&C 132:4-7) and eternal godhood (D&C 76:53-58)?

4. The cult weakens the follower psychologically by making him or her depend upon the group to solve his or her problems.

I would agree.   Here are a couple of comments from former temple worthy Mormons who were in the Church. Melissa was a Mormon for thirteen years and Emily for eleven:

“I did feel this way. Everything went through the filter of Mormonism for me, I couldn’t think independently. For me it was never “what would Jesus do”, it was “what would the church tell me to do”.  – Melissa Grimes

 “I remember feeling that way to a certain degree.” – Emily B.

5. The cult leader makes all the career and life decision of the members.

Not always.

 6. Cults exist only for their own material survival and make false promises to work to improve society.

The first part of that statement is true.  The second part is not always true.

7. Cult members are isolated from the outside world and any reality testing it could provide.

 It’s not like all cults are hidden away deep in the hills somewhere.  They’re all around.  They’re your neighbors, teachers, doctors, police officers, etc.

8. Cults are antiwoman, antichild, and antifamily.

I haven’t seen a cult yet that is anti-child.  I’ve seen a lot that are women haters or men haters though.  And by the way, most cults use family themes to make them seem honorable and safe.

9. Cults, particularly in regard to their finances, are shrouded in secrecy.

Now think about this.  When was the last time you personally were privy to the LDS church’s finance reports?  Have you ever seen a financial report from the LDS Church?  They publish a lot of stories on how much money they’ve spent for disaster reliefs, yet the last time the LDS Church published a financial report for its members was in 1959.

 10. There is frequently an aura of or potential for violence around cults.

That’s not always the case.  What we see on television are the sensationalistic cults that come and go with the wind.  Most cults are very subservient type of people who wouldn’t harm a fly.

Many of you try to use these statistics and facts against the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. I do no know why, because it sounds ridiculous.

Statistics/Facts on the Mormons

1. As of 1/22/93, Mormons have over 46,000 missionary’s world wide.

-There is actually more than that now, many more, but why should that matter? Many Christian churches have missionaries, many missionaries.

Specifically, who is doing this?  Do you feel someone is out to get you and if so, why?

 Typically those who are not Mormon find it interesting the Church has so many; while the Body of Christ as a whole doesn’t advertise their numbers of missionaries, it doesn’t mean there aren’t thousands out there as well.

And if you want real stats why not visit the sites of other denominations to find out what they say instead of just accusing them of something that’s not true?

 I also find it interesting you used the word “facts”.  I can only speak for myself, but that is what I use – facts.  I’m not in the business of broad brushing a character assassination against a group of people with generalizations.

2. Current membership is 8.3 million world wide.

-It is now over 12 million, and that should not matter either.

We’re not concerned about the numbers.  We’re concerned about your soul.  But since you brought it up…did you know the Church keeps names on the roles until the age of 110 whether they’re alive or not?  Were you aware they do not stop counting the numbers of people who have left the Church?  How is that truthful?  You’re reporting false numbers, doesn’t that bother you?

You can get lots of great stats about the Church from an active Mormon at the link here:

http://www.cumorah.com

3. They abstain from alcohol, tobacco, tea and coffee.

-Yes, and they live, on average, 15 years longer than most people who do not abstain from those substances.

The reason this is brought up is because of D&C 49.  It goes against what Paul says to the believers in the second chapter of Colossians.  Paul told us not to listen to people telling you what you can and can’t drink or eat.  The people telling you how to eat or drink are trying to be controlling and religious.

There’s nothing wrong with taking care of yourself, our concern is that you’re being told you could go to hell if you don’t obey the laws of man and it’s simply not true!

4. According to Jerald and Sandra Tanner, there have been over 4,000 changes in today’s version from the original 1830 Book of Mormon.

-Yes, ACCORDING to the Tanners, who are known anti-Mormons.

First of all, haven’t you read any material published by the Church addressing the changes that have been made to both the Book of Mormon and the D&C?  They come from Church approved websites such as the Maxwell Institute and www.lds.org  Fascinating read.

Secondly, what do the Tanners have to do with anything?  It is your Church that has made the changes, not the Tanners.  I would be happy to show you a copy of the original Book of Mormon published in 1830 and have you compare it to today’s Book of Mormon.  The changes are not typographical errors.  They are all changes that have been made to the context of the writings.

Here are just a few examples:

1830 Book of Mormon:

  1 Nephi, pg. 25; “Behold the Lamb of God, yea, even the Eternal Father!”

Today:

1 Nephi 11:21; “yea, even THE SON OF the Eternal Father!”

1830 Book of Mormon Title Page:

“Joseph Smith, Jr. The author and proprietor of this work”

Today;

 “Joseph Smith, Jr. the translator of this work”

You should visit the website of a friend of mine, Jim Spencer from Maze Ministry.  He has a side-by-side machine comparing the 1830 Book of Mormon to a modern version.  It’ll take you page by page, and paragraph by paragraph.  Here’s the link

http://www.mazeministry.com/machine/index.htm

 Anti.  The correct definition for “anti” is:  “a prefix meaning against”. 

 While there are many websites on the net who promote hate against the Mormon people, the Deckers, Tanners, Spencers and me included are not part of that genre. 

 We do not approve of, nor do we endorse the dogma of the LDS Church.  With that being said, there is nothing on my website that promotes hatred or animosity towards the Mormon people.  I love them dearly as do the volunteers that work alongside me at LAM. 

 Now for the 16 Points of the True Church

 The “16 Points of the True Church” was originally written as a faith promoting paper by a fellow in the LDS Church.  He and some of his college buddies set out to prove the church was the only true one and fit all Biblical criteria as such. 

The card missionaries used to pass out to prospective converts listed 17 points, not 16.  These cards are now sold in a set at Mormon Bookstores for members and/or missionaries to hand out to prospective new converts.

16 Points of the True Church; according to the Bible.

1.  Christ organized the Church (Ephesians 4:11-14).

And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;  For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:  Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:  That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive.

Jesus said in Matthew 16:18 that He was going to build His church upon the Rock, meaning Himself, not someone else.   The body of Christ contains many parts, just like our bodies do.  Some are apostles, prophets, healers, etc.  We have all been given different callings.  Where are the evangelists and pastors in the LDS Church?  Why does the Church only have one prophet at a time?  

2. The true church must bear the name of Jesus Christ (Ephesians 5:23). 

 “For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.”

 Nowhere in this scripture does Paul say the church must bear the name of Jesus Christ.  This scripture is pretty simple in showing us the structure of how the church is to be.  The only one at the head of the church is Jesus Christ, not man.

3. The true church must have a foundation of Apostles and Prophets (Ephesians 2:19-20)  

“Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellow citizens with the saints, and of the household of God; And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone.”  

Again, look at this wording and context.  Verse 20 says the foundation is Jesus Christ, not the apostles or prophets.  Jesus Christ is the Chief Cornerstone, not mere men.  The scripture keeps telling us Jesus Christ is the head of the church; Jesus Christ is the cornerstone.  He is the Alpha and Omega.     

The apostles were a one-time deal.  They were used at the time of Jesus – they were His apostles, not the church’s.   Mormonism maintains that the Book of Mormon is the keystone and the D&C the capstone of their faith.  Teachings of Ezra Taft Benson, pg. 41;  

The Book of Mormon is the “keystone” of our religion, and the Doctrine and Covenants is the capstone, with continuing latter-day revelation. The Lord has placed His stamp of approval on both the keystone and the capstone. (CR April 1987, Ensign 17 [May 1987]: 83.)” 

 Question for all of you that participated in this letter; does the truth in the Bible offend you?  Is this why you’ve deserted worshipping Him that has been proclaimed?  1 Peter 2:6-8;

Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded.  7 Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner,  8 And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed.”  

4. The true church must have the same organization as Christ’s Church (Ephesians 4:11-14)

 “And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;  For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:  Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:  That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive.”

The verse says that SOME will be given as apostles, etc.  Apostles in the Bible are of the highest calling.  Why does the church have them as the second position after the prophet?

Let’s take a look at the verse again.  It says prophets.  The wording here is plural, not singular.  Why does the church only have one prophet?     

And what does the Bible say about false prophets if even ONE of their prophecies doesn’t come to pass?  (Deut. 18:20-22).  Where is polygamy nowadays in mainstream Mormonism?  Why did the Church change its mind about blacks?  Again, there are no pastors in the Mormon Church.  And yet again, there are no evangelists in the Mormon Church.

5.  The true church must claim divine authority.  (Hebrews 5:4-10)

“And no man taketh this honour unto himself, but he that is called of God, as was Aaron.  So also Christ glorified not himself to be made an high priest; but he that said unto him, Thou art my Son, to day have I begotten thee.  As he saith also in another place, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.  Who in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to save him from death, and was heard in that he feared; Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered; And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;  Called of God an high priest after the order of Melchisedec.”

Where in the Bible does it make the claim you have made here?

By the Church’s own admission, the authority wasn’t in place when Smith and Cowdery received the Aaronic Priesthood.   Neither of them had been baptized at that point.  According to the Church’s standards you cannot validly receive the priesthood without being baptized first by a Church authority.  So how did either of them get the priesthood to baptize each other?  

Besides all that, let’s take a look at the real meaning of this passage in Hebrews:  Verse six actually says that Jesus’ priesthood is forever, as opposed to Aaron’s, whose is only temporary.  The entire passage is about Jesus’ priesthood and His divine work on the cross.  It says nothing about anyone else after Jesus holding the Melchisedec priesthood.  He is the only one who has this honor.  

6. The true church must have no paid ministry (Acts 20:33-34; John 10:11-13)  Acts 20:33-34; “I have coveted no man’s silver, or gold, or apparel.  Yea, ye yourselves know, that these hands have ministered unto my necessities, and to them that were with me.”

 John 10:11-13; “I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.  But he that is an hireling, and not the shepherd, whose own the sheep are not, seeth the wolf coming, and leaveth the sheep, and fleeth: and the wolf catcheth them, and scattereth the sheep.  The hireling fleeth, because he is an hireling, and careth not for the sheep.”

Neither of these verses says there aren’t to be paid ministers!  In John, Jesus told the people that He is the good shepherd and not there to mislead his flock; He is the true shepherd and won’t desert them like some who is only interested in taking their money and leaving the gates wide open.  He assures the people He would never do that.  

In Acts, yes, Paul is telling the people that he labored with his own hands to get money for food and necessities.  He was a tent maker in case you’re unaware.  However, this verse isn’t saying the pastor should be unpaid!  There are countless verses throughout the book of Acts that tells of how the newly formed Christian church took care of its people and the disciples.  People sold their properties and all their belongings to give to those who had need.  

7. The true church must baptize by immersion (Matthew 3:13-16)

“Then cometh Jesus from Galilee to Jordan unto John, to be baptized of him.  But John forbad him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me?  And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness. Then he suffered him.  And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him.”

 I agree the Bible does say to be baptized by immersion.  I would also say that no where in the Bible does it say that you’re going to hell if you’re sprinkled.  Faith in Jesus Christ is what saves you, not the works of baptism.  By the way, this passage of scripture also points to the Trinity.

 8. The true church must bestow the gift of the Holy Ghost by the laying on of hands (Acts 8:14-17)

“Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John:  Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost: (For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)  Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost.”

The truth here is that you need to read the entire section of how the church came into existence.  Acts 1:15 is the birth of the Christian Church.  There were 120 members to begin with and later that day it grew by thousands.  We’re not saying it should or shouldn’t be done, the Bible doesn’t say it’s mandatory.  The laying on of hands is a blessing placed upon the recipient, not a means of salvation.

The Holy Spirit came upon all the believers in the upper room that day, (Acts 1:4) as they were sitting there.  They didn’t have hands laid upon them.  What about the thief on the cross?  No works, no laying on of hands for him…Read all of Acts chapter 2!  This is what Holman’s Bible Dictionary has to say about the laying on of hands.  I use this reference for two reasons.  Holman’s is a reliable dictionary.  The Mormon Church uses it, ironically enough.  

“Acts introduces the dynamic but fluid practice of the early church. Acts 6 relates the selection of seven men who were put in charge of the daily service to the widows of the Jerusalem congregation. These men were chosen by the congregation, brought before the apostles, and, after prayer, had hands (whether the congregation’s or the apostles’ is unclear) laid on them. Fasting, prayer, and the laying on of hands also accompanied the appointment of Barnabas and Saul to their missionary endeavor (Acts 13:3). Peter and John laid hands on baptized believers in Samaria so they might receive the Holy Spirit (Acts 8:14-19). Paul did the same for some disciples at Ephesus who had been baptized into John the Baptist’s baptism (Acts 19:6). These disciples began speaking in tongues and prophesying as evidence of the Holy Spirit.

In 1 and 2 Timothy Paul wrote of Timothy’s having been given a spiritual gift by prophecy with the laying on of the hands of the assembly of elders (1 Tim. 4:14). He also referred to a gift of God that was in Timothy through the laying on of Paul’s hands (2 Tim. 1:6). Paul warned against laying hands on any one hastily (1 Tim. 5:22).  Hebrews classified laying on of hands among the elementary teachings that persons of maturity must leave behind (Heb. 6:2).

 9. The true church must practice divine healing (Mark 3:14-15).

“And he ordained twelve, that they should be with him, and that he might send them forth to preach, And to have power to heal sicknesses, and to cast out devils.”  

Yes, the church can practice divine healing.  However, truth comes from the Word of God and we must investigate any church that says they speak for the Lord.  The church could heal everyone in sight and still be teaching hellish lies.  Their healing powers just might be coming from Satan and not the Lord.  

2 Thessalonians 2:8-11; “And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie.  

10. The true church must teach that God and Jesus are separate and distinct individuals (John 17:11; 20:17).  “And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.”

 “Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.”

First of all, John 17:11 is Jesus praying to the Father for Him to keep the body of believers as one, just as they are one.  The second scripture is about Jesus not yet ascending to the Father.  It says nothing about the two of them being separate and distinct individuals or that “the true church” must teach these things!   Once again Jesus is our example and yes, He does have the same Father as we do, our Abba.  He was/is “related” to the Heavenly Father through an “eternal generation” as Matthew Henry so eloquently put it.  This in no way implies that God has a body of flesh and bones.  You’ve been lied to and you bought the lie.  This teaching from the LDS Church is a lie from bowels of hell.  

11. The true church must teach that God and Jesus have bodies of flesh and bone (Luke 23:36-39; Acts 1:9-11; Hebrews 1:1-3)

And the soldiers also mocked him, coming to him, and offering him vinegar, And saying, If thou be the king of the Jews, save thyself.  And a superscription also was written over him in letters of Greek, and Latin, and Hebrew, THIS IS THE KING OF THE JEWS.  And one of the malefactors which were hanged railed on him, saying, If thou be Christ, save thyself and us.

And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.  And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel; Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.

God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds; Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high.

This belief of the church is actually one of the most heretical teachings of the LDS faith.  All of scripture denounces this theology; in fact the Bible actually tells us just the opposite about God!  Hosea 11:9, Numbers 23:19.

The passages cited in Luke and Acts say absolutely nothing about God having a body of flesh and bones.  The word teaches us (as does historic Christianity) that Jesus has a glorified, resurrected body of flesh and bone.   

Mormons cite this because it has Jesus going to the Father, implying they are separate.  But Joseph Smith could never handle that Jesus Christ is God and he himself would never be just like Jesus.  It’s called jealousy, idolatry, blasphemy…     

“The most correct book on earth”, the Book of Mormon, even says that God is a spirit.  

12. The officers must be called by God (Hebrews 4:4; Exodus 28:1; 40:13-16).

“For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.”

 “And take thou unto thee Aaron thy brother, and his sons with him, from among the children of Israel, that he may minister unto me in the priest’s office, even Aaron, Nadab and Abihu, Eleazar and Ithamar, Aaron’s sons.”

 “And thou shalt put upon Aaron the holy garments, and anoint him, and sanctify him; that he may minister unto me in the priest’s office.

And thou shalt bring his sons, and clothe them with coats:  And thou shalt anoint them, as thou didst anoint their father, that they may minister unto me in the priest’s office: for their anointing shall surely be an everlasting priesthood throughout their generations.  Thus did Moses: according to all that the LORD commanded him, so did he.”

Not sure what the Hebrews 4:4 verse has to do with being called of God to work for Him, but with that being said, let’s look at the other verses from Exodus because there are two issues here that need to be addressed.

1-It is apparent here that God is the one speaking.  But this is not how the LDS officials are called.  It is done by having a priesthood meeting, doing committee work and finding out who was available for the calling and if they measured up.  When it’s your turn to serve, then you’ve been ‘called’ by God.

    In addition to this, most Mormons claim they are from the tribe of Ephraim, not Levi.  The Aaronic Priesthood was only given to Aaron and his sons, who were the tribe of Levi.  Even Smith claimed to be of the tribe of Ephraim. 

    If you read Hosea 7:8-9, it says; “Ephraim, he hath mixed himself among the people; Ephraim is a cake not turned.  Strangers have devoured his strength, and he knoweth it not: yea, gray hairs are here and there upon him, yet he knoweth not.”

Hosea warned the tribe of Ephraim that God had nothing but judgment for them while they were part of the northern kingdom.  Verse 12 says they knew not the precepts of the Lord.  Their god at this point was the golden calf of prosperity.  Once they mixed with Judah, they were swallowed up.

 2-Now for the second issue with this!  Why is the church still practicing the rituals from the times of the Old Testament?  Haven’t you heard my friends? 

The veil has been rent in two when the ultimate sacrifice was made!

One of my favorite verses is John 19:30.  Jesus said; “It is finished”! 

Why do you still put on the perfunctory costumes for something that’s already taken place?

And why are you wearing the same aprons in your temple that Adam and Eve wore in the Garden of Eden to hide their shame while hiding from God?

Are you hiding from God?

13. The true church must claim revelation from God (Amos 3:7)

“Surely the Lord GOD will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets.”

Dear Mormon friend, this is meant for the Old Testament times.  Everything God wanted to have revealed has been done with and through Jesus’ birth, death and resurrection.  God made His last new revelation with giving His Son as a sacrifice for our sins.  For the first time in history, the sins of the people weren’t just covered through a sacrifice; they were atoned for and washed away through Jesus’ shed blood.

If God is going to reveal every single little thing to us now, then why didn’t God warn them (Joseph Smith and his friends) about polygamy before Joseph Smith began practicing it as a “divine revelation” from God?       

By using this as a sign of a “true church”, the church has just proven they are not qualified.  They would have known it wasn’t from the Lord.  The U.S. government completely outlawed polygamy in 1890 through the Edmunds-Tucker Act.  Surely God is bigger than the US government!  

14. The true church must be a missionary church (Matthew 28:19-20)  “Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:  Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.”

Someone once said; “The great omission of the great commission is not obeying”.  The Lord’s direction for us is to “go out and make disciples of men”.  It is essential for us to go out and spread the Word of God, therefore most churches do this.  It doesn’t mean you aren’t a Christian if you don’t.  The work of the Holy Spirit in you will prompt you do to this.  

15. The true church must be a restored church (Acts 3:19-20)

Huh?  

“Repent ye therefore and be converted…when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord; and he shall send Jesus Christ; which before was preached unto you:  Whom the heavens must receive UNTIL the times of RESISTUTION OF ALL THINGS, which God has spoken through the mouth of ALL his holy prophets since the world began”.   You really need to read the ENTIRE context of the passage.      Note that nowhere is a church being restored.  It is quite evident from v. 21 this restitution will not take place UNTIL the Second Coming of Jesus Christ.  Even the LDS agree that Jesus’ return hasn’t occurred yet. 

The “restoration” of Joseph Smith, therefore, couldn’t be what is being spoken of.   The word “restitution” or “restoration” is used only ONE time in all of the New Testament and it is in Acts 3:21.  It says;  

Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.  This is referring to the time that God will reinstitute all things to their pristine order and purpose the way it was when He put Adam and Eve into the Garden of Eden.  

The Greek transliteration for the word restitution is PðïêáôÜóôáóéò – apokatastasis.  It means to reconstitute as in health, home or organization.  

16. The true church must practice baptism for the dead (1 Corinthians 15:16&29)

v. 16; “For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised.”

 v. 29; “Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? why are they then baptized for the dead?”

I am begging, and I do mean begging, the Mormon people to read an entire passage of scripture before they build an entire ritual and/or doctrine upon it.  Paul was telling the Corinthians to stop practicing this pagan ritual of baptism for the dead!  The first thirty six verses of this chapter focuses on the resurrection of Jesus Christ.  Paul was asking them why they were practicing baptisms for the dead when they didn’t even believe in the resurrection!     

In this particular instance, reading the entire passage in context isn’t even necessary!  Read those two verses.  What are you doing this for when the dead don’t rise from the dead?  That is what Paul was asking the Corinthians.  They did not believe in the resurrection.  

Listen, cults will take one verse from the Bible and build an entire theology upon it.  This is always a sign to the people of God there is something wrong!  When there are countless other verses that negate a certain teaching then you need to dig deeper than the surface.

You left out the 17th point.  (Matthew 7:20).

“Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.”

Jesus here is talking about the coming of the false prophets which “come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves”. 

 If someone is going to try and trick you they aren’t going to be telling you what they’re doing and this is exactly what Jesus was saying to His followers.     

 Everyone agrees the Mormon people are extremely nice people.  The LDS have a tendency to be well-groomed, well spoken, and they do good deeds for others.  However, doing these things and behaving the way they do isn’t what gets you into heaven!     

This is what just breaks my heart for my people.  They’ll go out of their way for anyone, but inside they don’t know the Lord.  The basic tenets of Mormonism teaches they will become gods themselves, that their god is an exalted man who is created and Jesus was conceived through natural means by Elohim and Mary.  Nothing could be further from the truth!

These are the deeds by which we must make our decision.

As you can see from the following, the person who e-mailed us wasn’t done…

Whoever made up the following was wrong:

1. Bible inferior to the Book of Mormon. No, it is not, there is nothing in the doctrine of the LDS religion that says that.

In the 8th Article of Faith it says “We believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly”.  It has always been implied and understood in the Church that the Bible is not to be believed entirely because Smith said it wasn’t translated correctly.

Discourses of the Prophet Joseph Smith, pg. 245; “I believe the Bible as it read when it came from the pen of the original writers. Ignorant translators, careless transcribers, or designing and corrupt priests have committed many errors.

 Then Orson Hyde said this in Journal of Discourses 2:75;

The words contained in this Bible are merely a history of what is gone by; it was never given to guide the servant of God in the course he should pursue, any more than the words and commandments of God, given to a generation under one set of circumstances, would serve for another generation under another set of circumstances.” – Salt Lake City on October 6, 1854.

Doctrines of Salvation 3:190; “We are informed in the Book of Mormon that the Hebrew scriptures went “forth from the Jews in purity unto the Gentiles, according to the truth which is in God,” and after they went forth from the Jews many changes were made, and “many parts which are plain and most precious; and also many covenants of the Lord have they taken away.”” – Joseph Fielding Smith

 Let’s get down to the basics here though.  Can you personally point out one scripture that has been translated incorrectly?

If Joseph Smith, Joseph Fielding Smith and Orson Hyde are wrong then what?

2. Black people are angels that did not fight valiantly in the war in heaven  No, this is wrong also.

I’m really glad you brought this up because it’s one of the main reasons I left the Church.  You see, while I’m not black, I’m dark.  I have black curly hair, dark eyes and olive skin.  I distinctly remember in 1978 when Kimball had his revelation saying that blacks could now be in the priesthood.   From 1963 (when I was born) until 1978, I had always been taught that I hadn’t been valiant in the pre-existence.  The day the “revelation” came out I remember crying because now I really couldn’t trust God.  Why did He change His mind?  It’s not that I had felt good about myself before, but now I really became skeptical that I could be saved.  How was I ever going to figure out who God was if He kept changing His mind?  (My father’s family is black Welsh)     

What had I done to change God’s mind about me?  I had always been raised to believe that I just hadn’t done everything I could have done in the pre-existence.  The shame ran deeper than the Grand Canyon in my soul, thinking I had rejected Jesus in the pre-existence.  

Juvenile Instructor, Vol. 3, page 157;We will first inquire into the results of the approbation or displeasure of God upon a people, starting with the belief that a black skin is a mark of the curse of heaven placed upon some portions of mankind. Some, however, will argue that a black skin is not a curse, nor a white skin a blessing.

 In fact, some have been so foolish as to believe and say that a black skin is a blessing, and that the negro is the finest type of a perfect man that exists on the earth; but to us such teachings are foolishness. We understand that when God made man in his own image and pronounced him very good, that he made him white. We have no record of any of God’s favored servants being of a black race….every angel who ever brought a message of God’s mercy to man was beautiful to look upon, clad in the purest white and with a countenance bright as the noonday sun… Their skin is quite black, their hair woolly and black, their intelligence stunted, and they appear never to have arisen from the most savage state of barbarism.”   

At the same time I was still living with the effects of God changing His mind before that.  My great-grandfather grew up in a polygamous home.  He had several sister “mothers” before the prophet had a revelation saying that God changed His mind about that.  When I’d attend family reunions there were literally hundreds of us there each summer.     

So by the time I was 15, I was living with two monumental doctrinal changes.  You can see where I began questioning I’m sure…Deut. 18:20-22 again says that if even one prophecy proves untrue then the prophet is not from God, we are to dismiss him immediately.  

3. Blood atonement (murder of members) for certain sins – This is a false doctrine that has been spread by anti-Mormons tryi8ng to bring the LDS Church down.

You’re right.  It is certainly a false doctrine, but it is also a doctrine the LDS church teaches.  You should read D&C 132:19-27.  The Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 1, pp. 133-8 also says;

“Man may commit certain grievous sins—according to his light and knowledge—that will place him beyond the reach of the atoning blood of Christ.  If then he would be saved, he must make sacrifice of his own life to atone…”  “Therefore their only hope is to have their own blood shed to atone, as far as possible, in their behalf”.       

Haven’t you ever wondered why it that Utah still has the firing squad available for the death penalty? 

 This is for you about how we feel:

1. We DO place our eternal life in the hands of Jesus Christ our Lord, Saviour and King. We have never thought it is in the hands of any latter-day prophet, although we do believe in the prophet.

You may not place your salvation in the hands of Joseph Smith or any other prophet, but that it against the church’s teachings and your statement is disingenuous at best.  D&C, Doctrines of Salvation and Pearl of Great Price explicitly says the prophet holds the keys to the kingdom of heaven.

By taking the Mormon sacrament, going to temple and participating in ordinances for the dead, you are subscribing to the “philosophy of Mormonism” and have not committed your lives to the God and King, Christ Jesus.

Living the Gospel, pg. 18; “…the teachings of the leaders of modern Israel are based upon the same religious philosophy, of which striking example was given when President Heber J. Grant said: “There is but one path of safety to the Latter-day Saints, and that is the path of duty.  It is not a testimony, it is not a marvelous manifestation, it is not knowing that the Gospel of Jesus Christ is true, that it is a plan of salvation – it is not actually knowing that the Savior is the Redeemer, and that Joseph Smith was His prophet that will save you and me; but it is the keeping of the commandments of God, living the life of a Latter-day Saint.”  (April General Conference, 1915.)…Living the Gospel day by day, not merely understanding or believing it, is what counts ultimately.” – Gerrit DeJong, Jr. – BYU Professor

We DO believe that Joseph Smith was a prophet of God. He never failed at any test. He DID NOT try to lead people to another god as many claim. Yes, he was a man, so he was not perfect.

I’ve already listed at least two prophecies that didn’t come to pass.  God never expected any of His prophets to be perfect, He already knew it was impossible.  There is however a HUGE difference between being perfect and being correct.

Here’s a link for our site listing just a handful of the false prophecies made by the LDS Church http://www.lifeafter.org/falseprophecies

 3. We are convinced the LDS church IS the Restored Gospel. We DO believe that the real Gospel was taken from the earth for a time.

If you really believe that how is it you can believe a word of what Jesus says in the Bible?  He PROMISED us that His church would never perish!  Matthew 16:18.

 4. We are convinced that the Book of Mormon is a truly divine document.

I pray you would look at our evidence to rethink your statement.  The teachings of the Church are full of inaccuracies and false prophecies.  Here’s just one example:

1 Nephi 2:8; “And it came to pass that he called the name of the river, Laman, and it emptied into the Red Sea; and the valley was in the borders near the mouth thereof”.

No river has ever emptied into the Red Sea.

 5. We are convinced that the Pearl of Great Price (particularly the Book of Abraham) is truly divine and from God.

Again, I am praying that you would compare those documents with what the Bible says.   You could even compare it with the book of Moses.  How come they contradict each other?

The papyri Joseph used to write the book of Abraham are actually Egyptian funerary texts similar to what is known as the pagan Book of Breathings.

Do you honestly believe there are other gods in existence?  That is what the Book of Abraham claims.

Have you ever compared the writings in the sacred works Joseph Smith presented to the people in the Church?  For instance you could begin with reading the verse in 2 Nephi 9:9;

“…to that being who beguiled our first parents, who transformeth himself nigh unto an angel of light…”

Now go to the introductory page of D&C.  In the 3rd paragraph it says;

“Joseph Smith received visitations from Moroni, an angel of light…”

Next look at the Testimony of Joseph Smith 2:47;

“After this third visit, he (Moroni) again ascended into heaven as before, and I was again left to ponder on the strangeness of what I had just experienced; when almost immediately after the heavenly messenger had ascended from me for the third time, the cock crowed…

Please, compare this to the story in Matthew 26:33-34;

Peter answered and said unto him, Though all men shall be offended because of thee, yet will I never be offended.  Jesus said unto him, verily I say unto thee, That this night, before the cock crow, thou shalt deny me thrice.

This should be of great concern to anyone in the LDS church.  Just this part of Mormonism alone absolutely breaks my heart for the millions of people who are in this church and confess, as you do, that you love the Lord Jesus.

You see, I don’t doubt for a second that you love Jesus.  That’s not what is in question here.  What is in question are the teachings you’ve been taught over the years. 

 6. We are convinced that the priesthood of the LDS church holds authority to act in the name of God.

I’ve already pointed out the errors of the priesthood to you.

Dear whom it may concern:

This is to inform you that I hereby am dedicated my life to my Saviour and King Jesus Christ. I wish to stay in his true gospel, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. I wish to be made known that my name is to stay on the records of his Gospel. I make this statement, and not demand because I know I love my Saviour.

Be advised that this action has been taken because it has been demonstrated to our full satisfaction that the Saviour’s true church is NOT in great error, and teaches NO false doctrines.

Sincerely,

Members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints

We wish you all to know that we love our Savior and King Jesus Christ and we have devoted our lives to Him. Not the Church. That is not what the LDS Church doctrine says at all. It is to dedicate you life to your Saviour. We hope you will realize the error of what you have done. In Christ’s Love. Us.

Actually, if I had the chance to do it all over again I would’ve left sooner.  I’d do it again today, tomorrow, next week, next month, next year….all so He could call me “friend”.  The best gift I’ve ever received in my entire life is the salvation God gave to me and the companionship I now have with His Holy Spirit residing inside of me.

P.S. This letter and document were written at different times and by us all at different times, so it may be confusing, please understand. Thank you.

I want to tell you all again that I know with my heart you love Jesus.  I truly understand the love for Him and being in the church at the same time. 

Remember, I was born a sixth generation Mormon on my mother’s side and fourth generation on my father’s side.  I’m originally from Ogden, Utah.  The hardest thing in the world for me was when I had to leave the church.  I never thought I would have done such a thing. 

    However, I couldn’t reconcile the Jesus of the Bible and the Jesus of Mormonism any longer.  I finally took the steps to be free of the Law to join Him in His grace and love He has for me and all of His children.

    I pray that you truly look over everything I’ve written in response to your note and study them.  Don’t trust your own ‘instincts’ because the Bible says the heart of man cannot be trusted.  (Jer. 17:9)  Study the word; do word studies with dictionaries as well.  Then make the decision.

    I hope to hear back from you all and know that I’m praying for you.

 With Love in Christ;

Michelle Grim  …

1 Corinthians 1:18; “For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

 

 

8 Responses to “16 Points of a True Church”

  1. fproy2222 October 17, 2011 at 6:54 pm #

    There are people who make up and teach lies about the LDS Church and there are people who reteach these lies believing they are true.

    fred

    • lifeafterministry October 17, 2011 at 7:05 pm #

      You’re right and we’re praying members of the Church can see the difference. The biggest enemy in “anti-Mormon” literature world is the Mormon Church. If they’d stop contradicting themselves and the Bible then their people could be set free. Our hearts hurt each day that passes when someone is lost in the lies.

      My offer is extended to each and every person who comes to our site. If you can show me exactly where I’ve lied or where any lie from any post is made on any of my websites then I will personally make a public apology and remove the wrong information promptly.

      With Love in Christ, Michelle

      • fproy2222 October 18, 2011 at 12:43 am #

        Are you willing to study and pray about the things yout ministrey teach that are untrue about the LDS church?

        I am not asking you to believe the differences in our teachings, I am just asking if you will take the time to be more careful when you teach others about what we believe and teach.

        • lifeafterministry October 18, 2011 at 1:11 am #

          Show me one example of where I’ve lied. If you can’t do this stop accusing me. Remember, you’re the one that sought out our site, respect is appreciated.

  2. fproy2222 October 18, 2011 at 6:05 pm #

    I never said you were lieing, you most likley believe all that you are teaching is true.

    The Question is, are you willing to to invest the time and effort to insure what you reteach is true?

    fred

  3. fproy2222 October 18, 2011 at 6:54 pm #

    (Show me one example of where I’ve lied. If you can’t do this stop accusing me.)

    Try my replys here for an example of misleading teachings on your blog.

    “Babies; When Baby Kicks Spirit Enters Body”

    http://lifeafterministry.wordpress.com/2011/10/18/mormon-dilemma-82/#comment-1212

    fred

  4. Michael R. Collings October 31, 2011 at 12:56 am #

    Col you please cite a reference from a qualified geologist that confirms your statement that “No river has ever emptied into the Red Sea”–not that the sentence says “HAS EVER.” That is such a sweeping statement that it requires absolute proof…and yet here it is used to “prove” the Book of Mormon false.

Leave a Reply

%d bloggers like this: